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Post by Tara on Aug 15, 2005 14:59:31 GMT -5
So I'm not perfect after all.
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 15, 2005 19:30:02 GMT -5
Is anyone???
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Post by freebird on Aug 15, 2005 21:01:55 GMT -5
Tara and Diana: But your are perfect!!! Arent you doing the best you can at this moment in time. I believe spirit see us all as perfect humans who make mistakes and lose our way sometimes. I believe the greatest error in my thoughts was that God didnt love me. Never was or has been true. Also i was born to be a blessing not into sin needing a sacrifice to be right with God. Just cant accept that story. My god is Love, my race is human, my religion is oneness. And i see you ladies as perfect holy children of God having a human experience.I appreciate your posts and the challenges that keep me remembering who i am and what my life is about.
Bless you Both
Freebird
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 15, 2005 21:21:41 GMT -5
Oh freebird...
You are right about God's love. It's not that sin makes us unloved... sin just makes us different from God. God is holy... perfect. You may like to think of Tara and me and you and others as perfect, but we all know we're not. I personally make poor choices every single day -- and I suffer for it, and other people suffer for it... and God suffers for it.
If I say something hurtful to you, you suffer. You can bear that suffering in grace, or succomb to self-pity... but you can't change the fact that when we are hurt we suffer.
When we say things hurtful to God or about Him (because they are not true), He suffers. He bears it with infinite grace, but we can't change the fact that He suffers. The best we can do is join with Him.
God bless, Diana
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Post by freebird on Aug 16, 2005 18:06:08 GMT -5
Diana:
Maybe I have left out something important in my posts that i think may help with this thread. I believe many churches and denominations mean well in there service their congregations. There is no doubt that people are helped and there faith is streghthened by going to that particular church. That is a good thing. I have been there and done that and am led in a different direction now. i am challenged and am not afraid to rock the boat when necessary when i have a problem with God. I believe god works through other people and sometimes we are not listening. Anyway I wish you well Diana and will see you on board.
Freebird
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 16, 2005 21:40:52 GMT -5
I can understand having a problem with people or with a church or denomination, but God is God. You can't rock God's boat... all you can do is hang on (by His grace) or fall off... It sounds to me like you would like to be God in your life... make your own rules and rewrite the laws of nature. Hey, best of luck with that. But I personally think it's wise to stick with the One who made me, and with the Church He provided to guide me. I've tried it on my own -- it's a lot harder to drown this way... ;D
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Post by freebird on Aug 16, 2005 22:26:17 GMT -5
Diana:
Appreciate the good post. Pretty good analogy of what you think i want to do but I see it differently. Ok here it is for me. I believe we are all a part of God. God is wanting to express him/herself through us. We are the instruments for which that miracle power flows through. Are we not created in the image of God? That to me sounds like we are one with God!! Maybe where we miss the mark is when we dont believe that. And where did you get I want to change the laws of nature? There are universal laws that are obvious and the law of cause and effect is a big one. Another big one is what you reap you will sow. Cant not believe that one!! So there you go. I am not sure I have explained it that way before but more will be revealed.
Your Friend
Freebird
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 17, 2005 7:34:14 GMT -5
Where you miss the mark is in throwing away God's holiness[/i].
We are not God -- we are not perfect. We are not holy -- we make mistakes, and many of us routinely do the wrong thing on purpose.
You admit that there are universal laws that "are obvious". How do you distinguish between the obvious, and the not so obvious? For example, "you reap what you sow" is apparently not obvious to criminals.
Certainly the goal of Catholic faith is "oneness with God" in fulfillment of Jesus Christ's High Priestly Prayer of John 17. But if we were already "one with God" we would be in agreement on all things. Clearly, you and I are not.
In this life, true unity is only possible through God's Holy Spirit -- and His Spirit is not going to lead us to believe a lie.
God bless, Diana
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Post by freebird on Aug 17, 2005 14:44:05 GMT -5
Diana:
Please speak for yourself when you talk about your God. Including me in your system of believe is not accurate. I dont belive it and have no problem with you believing it but I have a different understanding of God that works for me. You dont have to like it or believe it.
Freebird
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Post by Tara on Aug 17, 2005 15:20:44 GMT -5
I think that we do not feel as if we are one with God because we are not connected. That's the purpose of religion, I believe, is to reconnect us with who we are and where we've come from.
There is this one quote that I like that explains about who God is: "I am the string that runs through the pearls, as in a necklace" (from somewhere in the Bhagavad Gita)
But to the topic at hand, there are more quotes from various mystics of various religions:
I have learned so much from God that I can no longer call myself a Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Jew.- Sufi Hafiz (from the mystic tradition of Islam, Sufism)
"It is my belief that in the Presence of God there is neither male nor female, white nor black, Gentile nor Jew, Protestant nor Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist, nor Moslem, but a human spirit stripped to the literal substance of itself before God." (Howard Thurman, 'Creative Encounter')
For those in love, Moslem, Christian, and Jew do not exist.... Why listen to those who see it another way? If they’re not in love their eyes do not exist. (Rumi, Islam mystic)
And there is more but I'll get my hands on them later.
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Post by freebird on Aug 17, 2005 17:20:33 GMT -5
Tara:
Great post. Another great example of different faiths coming toghether in oneness. Can it be that we dont feel worthy enough to one with God. Unconditional love sees no lack or limitation.
Freebird
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Post by Tara on Aug 17, 2005 17:49:55 GMT -5
Unconditional love sees no lack or limitation. This was what I was trying to convey in one of my other posts.
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 17, 2005 21:22:09 GMT -5
How do you reconcile pain, suffering, and death in this picture of "only love"?
I'll refrain from comment on the last post directed to me, other than to say I agree wholeheartedly with what was said.
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Post by Tara on Aug 18, 2005 8:42:14 GMT -5
How do you reconcile pain, suffering, and death in this picture of "only love"? Good question. If God is only love and loves His children, then how do you explain the suffering of the world?
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 18, 2005 8:47:33 GMT -5
Tara, I'm interested in your answer, too...
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