moonchain
Guide
It raises a fever of intense apathy.
Posts: 595
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Post by moonchain on Nov 27, 2005 15:28:02 GMT -5
I'm an American. "The White man is evil!" is something we're used to. We hear it All The Time. Along with "Americans are evil!" and in my case "All gamers are evil!" : : I think I've even been guilty for saying white men are evil since I'm a woman. Racism (from all sides) is something we still struggle with. ooo.. how do you make that u?
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Post by Sue on Nov 27, 2005 15:47:53 GMT -5
Sometimes, it is the numbers that are negated or passed under silence: the Spanish conquest of South America has been one of the bloodiest and most ruthless episodes in history. Elst estimates that out of the population of native Continental South America of 1492, which stood at 90 million, only 32 million survived; terrible figures indeed but who talks about them today? "But what of the conquest of India by Muslims", asks Elst? In other parts of Asia and Europe, the conquered nations quickly opted for conversion to Islam rather than death. But in India, because of the staunch resistance of the 4000 year old Hindu faith, the Muslim conquests were for the Hindus a pure struggle between life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and their populations massacred. Each successive campaign brought hundreds of thousands of victims and similar numbers were deported as slaves. Every new invader made often literally his hill of Hindu skulls. Thus the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000, was followed by the annihilation of the entire Hindu population there; indeed, the region is still called Hindu Kush, 'Hindu slaughter'. The Bahmani sultans in central India, made it a rule to kill 100.000 Hindus a year. In 1399, Teimur killed 100.000 Hindus IN A SINGLE DAY, and many more on other occasions. Koenraad Elst quotes Professor K.S. Lal's "Growth of Muslim population in India", who writes that according to his calculations, the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION between the year 1000 and 1525. INDEED PROBABLY THE BIGGEST HOLOCAUST IN THE WHOLE WORLD HISTORY. Source: www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/5142/negislamindia.htmlHmmmmm.....
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moonchain
Guide
It raises a fever of intense apathy.
Posts: 595
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Post by moonchain on Nov 27, 2005 16:04:10 GMT -5
Reminds me of Eddie Izzard again (brilliant man, I recommend everyone see at least one of his stand-ups):
"Pol Pot killed one point seven million Cambodians, died under house arrest, well done there. Stalin killed many millions, died in his bed, aged seventy-two, well done indeed. And the reason we let them get away with it is they killed their own people. And we're sort of fine with that. Hitler killed people next door. Oh, stupid man. After a couple of years we won't stand for that, will we?"
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Post by littlepea on Nov 27, 2005 17:59:44 GMT -5
it goes without saying that no-one can really call anyone else a fool since we are all fools compared to God (in my opinion) but at the same time it must be possible to point out some statements as being more foolish than others - if someone spouts endless drivel but expects people to listen to it, how is the listener unjustified in drawing the obvious inference?
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Post by Mestemia on Nov 28, 2005 8:04:14 GMT -5
Yes, I meant Histeria, the cartoon. I haven't seen it on for some time. I guess the Christian Coalition that was protesting it won. Sad really. That there are groups of people out there who will go to any lengths to prevent the other points of view to be known.
Makes a person wonder what it is they have to hide.
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Post by cenk on Nov 28, 2005 9:41:59 GMT -5
unlike moonchain, i do take offense, because you are being outrageously racist, not to mention boring. i don't take offense simply because i am aryan and i am one of the least violent people i know, i take offense because i am aryan and that is the most sweeping and unfair generalization i've heard for quite some time (and i can't believe people on here aren't slating you for it). No you dimwit. I am just stating that the Whiteman has killed more people than anyone else. Thats a fact is you dont like it tough. Facts cant be buried. Well littlepea I recognise the highland clearances, are you happy? I am not suggesting that Aryans are "naturally" more violent than other races. I'm suggesting that they have been causing more death on this planet than anyone else. Oh I live in a big city theres alot of ethnic minorites here the BNP wouldn't stand a chance...
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Post by cenk on Nov 28, 2005 9:53:52 GMT -5
Sometimes, it is the numbers that are negated or passed under silence: the Spanish conquest of South America has been one of the bloodiest and most ruthless episodes in history. Elst estimates that out of the population of native Continental South America of 1492, which stood at 90 million, only 32 million survived; terrible figures indeed but who talks about them today? There is no phunking way that you or "Elst" or anyone else can estimate the population of Native Americans. you are too quick to accept one estimate (and a estimate will always be just that, an estimate) Since you bring up India, I would like to point out that India is the place where the Whiteman has done pretty much the most damage. NOW YOU READ.....www.dalitstan.org/books/bibai/bibai1.html1. The Aryan Invasions The following are the invasions elaborated in the later parts of the book. The all-pervading spirit of negationism falsely portrays ancient racial conflicts as purely political struggles. The following pages shall rectify that. To summarise, there was not one, but several Aryan invasions during the history of India. (1) Rigvedic Aryan Invasion (1500 BC) : The First Aryan Invasion involved the annihilation of the Semito-Negroid (Sudra-Panian) Indus Valley civilization by the hordes of Indra , and the slaughter of 5 million of its inhabitants. The Indus irrigation system was shattered to permanently destroy agriculture in the region. Sudroid blacks were displaced from all of North India, the survivors retreating to the hill tracts of Bundelkhand-Gondwana. (2) Second Aryan Invasion (1400 BC) : Bharata launched the second Aryan invasion from Afghanistan, and conquered much of the upper Ganges valley, defeating the descendants of the first wave of invasions under Indra. (3) The Krishnaite (Third) Aryan Invasion (1200 BC) : Krishna launched the third Aryan invasion, invading Western India (Gujarat, Rajastan etc.) from Mathura in Aryavarta. He finally established his capital there, naming it Dwarka. He destroyed the surviving traces of the Indus Valley civilization, abducting and raping 16000 women (low-caste `gopis') of the races he exterminated. Survivals of these acts are found in the much toned-down Krishna-gopi songs. (4) Mahabharatan Aryan Invasion (900-800 BC) : The Fourth Aryan Invasion occurred in 2 parts: First, the Digvijay Aryan invasions that led to the subjugation of all of India to the Aryan yoke. The revolt by the non-Aryans and mixed races led to the terrible Mahabharatan War between the Aryan Pandavas on one side and the mixed race Kauravas and black aboriginals on the other. The Aryan victory enabled them to invade & settle in the Ganges valley and confirmed Aryan dominance. The genocides of this war permanently changed the racial composition of India. These conflicts were some of the most terrible recorded. (5) Fifth (Solar) Aryan Invasion (800 BC) : The Fifth Aryan invasion is named Solar, since the Aryans who invaded India during this epoch were of the Solar race (Suryavamsi), while the earlier Aryans were of Lunar race (Chandravamsi). Kashyap (ie. from the Caspian) is the progenitor of the Solar race of kings. From the Caspian they swept down into India, driving the preceding peoples before them. Ikshvaku established his chiefdom at Ayodhya, while his grandson Mithi conquered Mithila (named after him). Parasurama continued the 5th Aryan invasion, exterminating various aboriginal races. (6) Ramaite Aryan Invasion & Dravidian Holocaust (600 BC) : The 6th Aryan invasion of the deep South (Dravidia) by the armies of `Lord' Ram led to the fall of the Rakshasa (Dravidian) empire & the destruction of the splendid city of Ravana. The apartheid varna system was imposed, with those black Dravidian Sudras who accepted Aryan enslavement being relegated to the `Clean Sudra' caste , while those who fought the Aryans were relegated to the `Untouchable Sudra' castes (`panchama') of Dalits and Adivasis. The worship of the Aryan religion of Vaishnavism was introduced, and most Dravidians in Lanka exterminated. (7) Buddhist Aryan Invasion (260 BC) : This Seventh Aryan invasion was launched by Askoka, King of Aryan Magadha. His attack on Kolarian Kalinga led to the horrible Kalinga War, in which 200,000 black aboriginals were killed & countless more enslaved. Several wars with the aboriginal races were waged. The Aryanised religions of Jainism and Buddhism entered South India. Although these religions were liberal with Aryan castes, and Buddha was in fact a Mongoloid, these faiths kept the fundamental Aryan-Sudroid apartheid varna system. The Aryan Sinhalese Buddhists, invading from East India, meanwhile, exterminated the entire population of native black Dravidoids. Staunch Buddhist fanatics, they destroyed scores of Shaiva shrines, erecting Buddhist temples on the ruins and eventually eradicating Shaivism from Lanka. (8) Eighth Aryan Invasion (100 BC) : The Eighth Aryan Invasion occurred under the Maharashtrian Satavahanas. They invaded Dravidia, sacking several cities and annexing Dravidian lands. This was the first of the Maharasthrian Aryan Invasions. (9) Nineth (Guptan) Aryan Invasion (250 AD) : Samudra Gupta of the Gupta dynasty in Aryavarta invaded south India and conquered several non-Aryan nations. The famous invasion of Daskhinapatha led to the subjugation of many native Indian races, incl. Tamil Nadu. This led to a hardening of the varna system even in remote areas. Several wars with the Scythians were also waged. (10) Rajput (Scythic) Aryan Invasion (300 AD - 1400 AD) : The Rajputs are descendants of Scyths, Greeks, Kushans, Romans, etc. who entered India mostly after the fall of Guptan Koshala. Finding Aryavarta (Braj-Koshala) dominated by Aryans, they entered Rajastan and over several centuries, annihilated the Black Abroginal population of Bhils & Minas. (11) Eleventh Aryan Invasion (600 - 1000 AD) : This occurred under the Maharashtrian Chalukyas, and is also known as the Second Maharasthrian Aryan Invasion. During these wars, Pulkesin II (610 - 642) conquered several Dravidian peoples, and invaded Tamil Nadu. Finally, after severe persecution of Dravidians, a wave of revolt by the Dravidian Shaivite Lingayats destroyed Aryan Chalukya rule. (12) Vijayanagaran Aryan Invasion (1336-1646) : The semi-Aryanized Andhras embarked on one of the most systematic subjugations of the Dravidian races on record. The entire epoch of the dark Vijayanagar empire was one of conquest, oppression, and mass murder of Dravidians. In the Apartheid Andhrite Vijayanagar varna system, a semi-Aryan Mulatto Nair warrior would shoot a Dravidian Sudra Negro at sight . (13) Oriya Aryan Invasion (1450-60 AD) : Kapilendradeva of Indo-Aryan Orissa invaded the Dravidian nations in the 1450s-60s, conquering the Reddi kingdom of Vengi and pillaging his way deep into Tamil Nadu. (14) Mughal Caliphate of Islam : The Mughal Caliphate of Delhi in Hindustan (North India) meant the end of the apartheid varna system in the north. Sudra Blacks could re-enter civilization, and contributed much to Mughalstani (Indo-Islamic) civilization as warriors, miners, agricultural labour, police, etc. The varna apartheid system remained in force in Dravida Nadu (South India), however. Here the Aryan Brahmins collaborated with the Aryan Islamic invaders from Central Asia and maintained this inhuman institution. (15) Marathan (Thirteenth) Aryan Invasion (18th century) : The barbaric Marathas launched the fourteenth Aryan invasion. All Dravidian nations were subjugated to the Aryan yoke once again. Blacks were subject to severe oppression, eg. the Peshwa rulers forced the Dalits in Maharashtra to carry pots to hold their own spittle and brooms to wipe away their footsteps as they walked. (16) European Aryan Invasions (1500s-1947) : With the help of the Aryan Brahmans, the Portuguese Aryan invaders managed to conquer Malabar. The Portuguese allowed their white cousins to maintain the apartheid varna system of Manu in most of Malabar, and even adopted some of its features in Goa. The Aryan Anglo-Saxon invaders were also supported by the Indo-Aryans, especially the Brahmans (cf. RSS never opposed the English, Congress supported the English in World War I, etc.). The kindred Aryan civilizations adopted much from each other, eg. the Theosophical Society, etc., but combined in their suppression of Black Sudra civilization. (17) Republic of India (1947 ->) : The Republic of India officially perpetrated the pro-Aryan government of the English. Thus, Sudra Religion (Saivism) is not recognised as a separate religion, but they are classed, along with all Sudra Blacks, as (Aryan) Hindus. It has been shown that they are not the Hindus. This was mainly due to the racist anti-Sudra M.K.Gandhi, who prevented the British, and later the Indian Government from enacting such legislation. `Khari Boli' Hindi, heavily Sanskritised, is, along with English, the co-official language of India, and is expanding rapidly at the expense of Dravidian tongues.
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Post by cenk on Nov 28, 2005 10:01:23 GMT -5
I also thought this was of interest... from the same link www.dalitstan.org/books/bibai/bibai1.htmlPatterns in the Deniers of Holocaust What could be the reasons for such a vociferous denial of established facts ? Is it just plain guilt ? Or is there some hidden agenda ? Firstly, there are several things to notice regarding the background of the `scholars' who propound these negationist theories : Brahmins - Most of the scholars propagating these hypotheses, including Golwalkar and Rajaram, are Brahmins. The rest are either Aryans or a handful of European sympathisers such as Frawley, Gautier and Elst. In all cases, they are all white-skinned Caucasoids who are denying crimes allegedly perpetrated by white-skinned Caucasoids. Taking such attempts seriously is like trying to ask Nazi historians to write an unbiased account of the Holocaust. Whatever unbiased theories shall ultimately prevail, these must be produced by neutral third parties not involved in the incident. European `Hindus' - Most of the European deniers of Aryan invasions, such as Koenraad Elst, Francois Gautier and David Frawley, are converts to `Hinduism', which in technical terms means one of the 6 orthodox schools of Brahmanism, generally of a Vaishnavite sub-sect. Needless to say, such persons shall not be allowed to enter the Vaishnava Jagannath temple at Puri or many other Vaisnava temples, yet these persons still like to live in a fantasy-world where they imagine themselves to be `Hindu'. Thus, David Frawley is an American convert to Vaishnavism, as is the virulently anti-Islamic Belgian Roman Catholic Koenraad Elst and Francois Gautier is a French devotee of Aurobindo. All these persons have hence adopted the `Indian Home for Aryans' hypothesis as a result of their religious persuasion. Hindutva - The Denial of Aryan Invasions is central to the Hindutva ideology, a neo-Brahmanist form of Vedic fascism. This movement is famous for being involved in the organisation of pogroms against various races, notably Christians, Dalits, Sikhs and Muslims. The Denial of Aryan Invasions is accompanied by a virulent hatred of Christians and Muslims, who are dubbed as `invaders'. Sudra human-rights activists are, in this framework, dubbed as `traitors' to the `Indian' Brahmanist tradition. Since your mention Timur the Muslim... www.encyclopedia.com/html/T/Timur.aspTimur's reputation is that of a cruel conqueror. After capturing certain cities he slaughtered thousands of the defenders (perhaps 80,000 at Delhi) and built pyramids of their skulls. Although a Muslim, he was scarcely more merciful to those of his own faith than to those he considered infidels.
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Post by Sue on Nov 28, 2005 10:21:55 GMT -5
I never said I accepted the estimate, Cenk. I just said "hmmmmm".
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Post by Sue on Nov 28, 2005 10:42:40 GMT -5
The historian Will Durant wrote in The Story of Civilization (1972) that the Muslim conquest of India was "probably the bloodiest story in history." The exact number of people killed during the invasions will never be known. Estimates are based upon the muslim chronicles and demographic calculations. Prof. K.S. Lal estimated in his book The Growth of Muslim Population in India that between the years 1000 CE and 1500 CE the population of Hindus decreased by eighty million. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest_of_South_Asiahmmmmm.....
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Post by cenk on Nov 28, 2005 14:49:19 GMT -5
The historian Will Durant wrote in The Story of Civilization (1972) that the Muslim conquest of India was " probably the bloodiest story in history." The exact number of people killed during the invasions will never be known. Estimates are based upon the muslim chronicles and demographic calculations. Prof. K.S. Lal estimated in his book The Growth of Muslim Population in India that between the years 1000 CE and 1500 CE the population of Hindus decreased by eighty million. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest_of_South_Asiahmmmmm..... you forget that half of the Muslim were Aryans from Afghanistan, Iran and Central Asia. The other half were Turkic and Mongols. WOW the Muslim conquest of India was " "probably" the bloodiest story in history." Since you like quotes. I hope you do actually read each and every one. "The destruction of the Indians of the Americas was, far and away, the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world." "Hundreds of Indians were killed in skirmish after skirmish. Other hundreds were killed in successful plots of mass poisoning. They were hunted down by dogs, 'blood-Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives [mastiffs] to seize them.' Their canoes and fishing weirs were smashed, their villages and agricultural fields burned to the ground. Indian peace offers were accepted by the English only until their prisoners were returned; then, having lulled the natives into false security, the colonists returned to the attack. It was the colonists' expressed desire that the Indians be exterminated, rooted 'out from being longer a people upon the face of the earth.' In a single raid the settlers destroyed corn sufficient to feed four thousand people for a year. Starvation and the massacre of non-combatants was becoming the preferred British approach to dealing with the natives." (David E. Stannard, "American Holocaust: Columbus and the Conquest of the New World," Oxford University Press, (1992)) " By then [1891] the native population had been reduced to 2.5% of its original numbers and 97.5% of the aboriginal land base had been expropriated....Hundreds upon hundreds of native tribes with unique languages, learning, customs, and cultures had simply been erased from the face of the earth, most often without even the pretense of justice or law." (Peter Montague, "#671 - Columbus Day, 1999," Rachel's Environment & Health News, Environmental Research Foundation, at: www.rachel.org/ ) "In 1703, Massachusetts paid 12 pounds for an Indian scalp. By 1723 the price had soared to 100 pounds." (Anon, "The history of Indian and European scalping," 2002, PageWise, Inc., at: ct.essortment.com/historyscalpin_rdrp.htm ) "Indeed, in many areas it [murdering Indians] became an outright business." (Ward Churchill, "A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas, 1492 to the Present," City Lights Books, (1998)) I'm just wandering did India's population get reduced to 2.5% of what it wa under Muslim rule?
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Post by Tara on Nov 29, 2005 9:36:05 GMT -5
Hey, look at what I found. LIFE WITHOUT BLACK PEOPLE
A very humorous and revealing story is told about a group of white people who were fed up with African Americans, so they joined together and wished themselves away.They passed through a deep dark tunnel and emerged in sort of a twilight zone where there is an America without black people. At first these white people breathed a sigh of relief.
At last, they said, No more crime, drugs, violence and welfare. All of the blacks have gone! Then suddenly, reality set in. The "NEW AMERICA" is not America at all-only a barren land.
1. There are very few crops that have flourished because the nation was built on a slave-supported system.
2. There are no cities with tall skyscrapers because Alexander Mils, a black man, invented the elevator, and without it, one finds great difficulty reaching higher floors.
3. There are few if any cars because Richard Spikes, a black man, invented the automatic gearshift, Joseph Gambol, also black, invented the Super Charge System for Internal Combustion Engines, and Garrett A. Morgan, a black man, invented the traffic signals.
4. Furthermore, one could not use the rapid transit system because its procurer was the electric trolley, which was invented by another black man, Albert R. Robinson.
5. Even if there were streets on which cars and a rapid transit system could operate, they were cluttered with paper because an African American, Charles Brooks, invented the street sweeper.
6. There were few if any newspapers, magazines and books because John Love invented the pencil sharpener, William Purveys invented the fountain pen, and Lee Barrage invented the Type Writing Machine and W. A. Love invented the Advanced Printing Press. They were all,you guessed it, Black.
7. Even if Americans could write their letters, articles and books, they would not have been transported by mail because William Barry invented the Postmarking and Canceling Machine, William Purveys invented the Hand Stamp and Philip Downing invented the Letter Drop.
8. The lawns were brown and wilted because Joseph Smith invented the Lawn Sprinkler and John Burr the Lawn Mower.
9. When they entered their homes, they found them to be poorly ventilated and poorly heated. You see, Frederick Jones invented the Air Conditioner and Alice Parker the Heating Furnace. Their homes were also dim. But of course, Lewis Lattimer later invented the Electric Lamp, Michael Harvey invented the lantern and Granville T. Woods invented the Automatic Cut off Switch.
Their homes were also filthy because Thomas W. Steward invented the Mop & Lloyd P. Ray the Dust Pan
10. Their children met them at the door-barefooted, shabby, motley and unkempt. But what could one expect? Jan E. Matzelinger invented the Shoe Lasting Machine, Walter Sammons! invented the Comb, Sarah Boone invented the Ironing Board and George T. Samon invented the Clothes Dryer.
11. Finally, they were resigned to at least have dinner amidst all of this turmoil. But here again, the food had spoiled because another Black Man, John Standard invented the refrigerator.
Now, isn't that something? What would this country be like without the contributions of Blacks, as African-Americans?
Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "by the time we leave for work, Americans have depended on the inventions from the minds of Blacks."
Black history includes more than just slavery, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, and Marcus Garvey & W.E.B. Dubois.I just thought that would be a bit relavent to the topic about the developement of America.
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Post by Sue on Nov 29, 2005 9:47:57 GMT -5
Oh but wait, Cenk--perhaps the Aryans were just under the influence of your *evil* religion. Ever think about that? Why point out that they were Aryans? Why not point out that they were under the influence of Islam? I guess you were too stupid to figure out what I was getting at the first time. That's right! It is an estimate! We are often forced to estimate death tolls when we are not sure of the exact number. Could the number of people slaughtered by Muslims be smaller than 80 million? Yes, it could. BUT--it could also be larger than 80 million--perhaps even 100 million!
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Post by Tara on Nov 29, 2005 9:51:54 GMT -5
Oh but wait, Cenk--perhaps the Aryans were just under the influence of your *evil* religion. Ever think about that? Why point out that they were Aryans? Why not point out that they were under the influence of Islam? I guess you were too stupid to figure out what I was getting at the first time. Hey, can we be a bit nicer please? Thanks.
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Post by teancum79 on Nov 29, 2005 10:08:36 GMT -5
Cenk that is some interesting history. I pose the question who in all of history has had a weapon that was vastly superior and chose not to take all they could get with it. The only thing that has limited the amount of death and destruction by non Arians in the past was the inability to get the job done. However in the late 1940's the USA had a weapon that they could have used and abused to take near total world power. No one had anything like it and no one in the rest of the world knew that we did not have a stock pile of nukes ready to roll.
Yes the Arians have had a history filled with blood, but that history was as much a matter of technology as any other factor. I don't recall the Huns or Arabs being overly nice and friendly. So get off your raciest high horse. History is filled with good and evil pretending that the problems are based in race is foolish.
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