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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 6, 2007 19:47:09 GMT -5
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Post by teancum79 on Aug 6, 2007 21:19:06 GMT -5
We have freedom of speech. As long as what we have to say conforms to the current political agenda of the ruling party or the whining minority.
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Post by Amalcas on Aug 6, 2007 21:30:32 GMT -5
This seems like a uniquely odd situation. I think I would side with the firemen, however; the argument is sound.
Though, in all honesty, I suspect many of the "homosexual hecklers" were not, in fact, homosexual; they were just out to make fun of the parade, quite likely, and I feel the article, or at least a number of individuals quoted in the article, seems to use said behavior as cannon fodder against homosexuals.
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Post by Mestemia on Aug 6, 2007 23:21:57 GMT -5
What I find most interesting is that of all the stories I have thus far been able to find, only the 'anti-gay' (for lack of a better term) sources report all this alleged "exposure of genitals, blowing kisses, grabbing of the crotch, rubbing of nipples, tongue gestures, men hugging and kissing one another passionately, many of them wearing make-up and dressed like women."
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 7, 2007 3:51:44 GMT -5
Any random video from one of the events will show at least two or three of those.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Aug 7, 2007 11:50:14 GMT -5
If things indeed did happen as they say they did that is indeed an ugly display by some of the less evolved members of the gay community.
However, the source is indeed suspect as someone else has already mentioned. I would need to hear the same story from many different sources and also hear the other side before i formulated my opinion totally.
In Peace and Love,
Jedi Velarius
"God"
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Post by Mestemia on Aug 7, 2007 17:16:17 GMT -5
If things indeed did happen as they say they did that is indeed an ugly display by some of the less evolved members of the gay community. However, the source is indeed suspect as someone else has already mentioned. I would need to hear the same story from many different sources and also hear the other side before i formulated my opinion totally. In Peace and Love, Jedi Velarius "God" Do not get me wrong. Every source I have found clearly states that the men were forced into the parade when they clearly did not want to be involved. I agree that they they should not have been forced into it. Perhaps someone can link to a video of this behavior. Or more specifically, a link to a video of THIS PARADE that shows the alleged behavior. Funny thing, I haven't found one. |
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doug
Student
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Post by doug on Aug 8, 2007 5:35:25 GMT -5
The firemen should not have been forced to participate. I think thats beyond dispute. The gay rights movement has been about nothing except the freedom to be who you are without facing prejudice and pushing people to become involved in a parade they have no desire to be in is appalling.
In response to your question Diana:
" Okay, let's put aside paedophilia. What about the men subjected to sexual harrassment in the article I posted today? No need to respond here -- you can respond there.
There are no boundaries for these folks. I'm not talking about all homosexuals -- I'm talking about those who are sexually crazed, homo- and heterosexual alike. "
The reporting of the story was clearly from an anti-gay rights point of view and a great deal of contempt was being directed at Tracy Jarman, the fire chief, who had the audacity to be an "open lesbian" so I take the reporting of "lewd behavior" with a pinch of salt.
In this case, what it comes down to is how the fire fighters felt about the situation and how the courts decide to view the evidence. Gay men, as a group, can have a very earthy sense of humour and what is acceptable amongst friends isn't always welcome to others so if the behaviour was directed at them and their case is proven then they should receive some kind of recompense because sexual harassment isn't acceptable.
I don't believe it should stop the parades however as gay people still suffer prejudice. For example at recent gay pride events in Russia and in Eastern Europe, gay rights activists have been physically beaten in the street without help from the police; a lesbian couple in South Africa was repeatedly raped and then murdered by straight men who couldn't "understand them" and American gay people are still fighting for the state to recognise their unions. These parades show people they are not alone.
You're more general point about the sexually obsessed I can't really answer because I feel I need more from you. What constitutes sexual obsession? How far can humour or serious debate or people go before they become sexually obsessed?
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 9, 2007 18:19:46 GMT -5
Do not get me wrong. Every source I have found clearly states that the men were forced into the parade when they clearly did not want to be involved. I agree that they they should not have been forced into it. Perhaps someone can link to a video of this behavior. Or more specifically, a link to a video of THIS PARADE that shows the alleged behavior. Funny thing, I haven't found one. I'm quite certain that if such a video exists it has been seized as evidence for the impending court case. I'm also quite certain that this case will probably not go anywhere without that evidence. |
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 9, 2007 18:41:42 GMT -5
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Post by Mestemia on Aug 9, 2007 21:22:33 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, a complaint is not evidence for the actions that prompted the complaint.
Funny also that I have been unable to find even one video that shows that particular parade.
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Post by dianaholberg on Aug 10, 2007 6:36:43 GMT -5
Already explained -- likely seized as evidence if one exists. Meantime, your initial complaint about biased media is clearly off track. The facts were published. The only reason the story seems one-sided to you is that parade representatives aren't being interviewed. But this is a case between the firefighters and their employer -- they aren't suing the parade.
Meantime the fire chief has apologized for ordering them to participate. I doubt this will stop them from following through with the lawsuit, but it's a start.
I'm surprised you imply the firefighters may be lying about this. Have you not attended one of these events? It's like a free-for-all. I'll agree that its the immature who behave in this way and not everyone involved -- but that really has no bearing on anything.
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doug
Student
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Post by doug on Aug 10, 2007 8:13:26 GMT -5
A free-for -all? A free-for-what? I would never act like the fire fighters accuse some of the members of the parade of acting-and it does seem to me they are genuinely upset.In fact I've never seen actions like the ones described in the complaints at any Pride event I've ever been to. These events are about Gay Pride not Gay Attempted Molestation of Poor Quivering Straight Men and I think the majority treat it as such.
Of course some of the costumes are outlandish. There will be people dressed in drag, tight clothing etc but thats only because these are celebratory carnivals as much as political statements and people are there to have fun as much as anything else.
The fire fighters aren't just upset with the small number of gay men who they said made upsetting remarks and gestures. They are upset with the Christian protesters as well.
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Post by Mestemia on Aug 10, 2007 10:02:15 GMT -5
Already explained -- likely seized as evidence if one exists. Meantime, your initial complaint about biased media is clearly off track. The facts were published. The only reason the story seems one-sided to you is that parade representatives aren't being interviewed. But this is a case between the firefighters and their employer -- they aren't suing the parade. No. The reason it seems one-sided is because it is one sided. the only sources that list these alleged sexual harassment behaviors are the 'anti-gay' (for lack of a better term) sources. Yes they are suing their employer. They are suing their employer claiming that not only did these actions take place, but that their employer should have foreseen these actions taking place. Yet there is nothing but the reports of biased sources supporting that the actions took place in the first place. Meantime the fire chief has apologized for ordering them to participate. I doubt this will stop them from following through with the lawsuit, but it's a start. If their whole case is merely their alleged sexual harassment, they have a long way to go and lots to prove. However, that they were forced to participate in an event that they clearly did not wish any involvement in, that is another can of worms entirely. I'm surprised you imply the firefighters may be lying about this. Have you not attended one of these events? It's like a free-for-all. I'll agree that its the immature who behave in this way and not everyone involved -- but that really has no bearing on anything. Yes I have attended these type of events. And the ones I attended did not contain this "free-for-all" behavior. Granted, I have not attended one in LA. |
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Post by Mestemia on Aug 10, 2007 10:05:52 GMT -5
They are upset with the Christian protesters as well. Now I have to ask the same of this as I have of the alleged behavior: Would you be so kind as to present a source? |
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