jedivelariuskenobi
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All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Jan 29, 2009 10:23:44 GMT -5
how can you be in the middle? That simply means that you are not a follower of Jesus Christ. This is an interesting point. Many of the spiritual persuation, both Buddhists, and Taoists, as well as New Age folks and Jedi use the idea of a middle path, or a balanced way. In other words then, in this discussion of the bible, i take a middle stance, seeing its value as well as its flaws. I attempt to look at it from a distance not letting my prejudices for good or for ill cloud my perspective. I can see that it has many stories of value, but it also says things that i find downright offensive. I still find much value in the Catholic faith. I go to mass just about every sunday and sharing the mass either with my family or more often with my girlfriend. We attend a catholic church, listen to the sermon, participate, and partake of holy communion. While i don't agree with everything, there is still much that i agree with. Many Christians are not followers of Christ, going back through the ages and today. Reading the bible is not all the is important about being a follower of christ, what is also important is acting with Christ in your heart and doing things bringing about the same peace and balance that he did. It is something that makes me very happy though that we can share these views in peace on this forum.
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robl
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It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Posts: 185
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Post by robl on Jan 29, 2009 14:00:54 GMT -5
Of course you find things that are downright offensive in the Bible. It was not written with a man's point of view on how man thinks things should be. It was written by God to man and how God thinks things should be. Before I got saved I had alot of trouble reading the whole Bible. I mean this book was calling me a heathen, a liar, a sinner, and telling me I was going to hell. This is why so many "preachers" today refuse to preach the Bible in its entirety. Because they only care about big numbers of people. They have no care for the souls of men and women. I know if I offend many and can bring just one to salvation by preaching the truth. Then that is better than larg numbers of hell bound people in my church paying tithe.
This is true to a point. The Apostle James(the brother of Jesus)said in his general epistle to the churches that we most be doers of the word and not hearers only. But at the same time how can we do the word if we do not hear it to begin with. There are many who through the ages have said that they were Christians. But they were false prophets and liars. Jesus said himself there will be many who shall call me Lord, Lord and I shall say depart from me you workers of iniquity I knew you not. This is serious business here. I can see how you might look at people who say(or who have said in the past)that they are Christians. And they drag the name of the Lord Jesus threw the mud. How you might say you dont want what they have. But in reality they have nothing. Because they say they are Christ's. But in truth they are none of his.
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Post by dianaholberg on Jan 30, 2009 18:18:23 GMT -5
Jedi, I would be remiss if I did not suggest to you that you discuss your reception of communion as a non-believer with your priest. You put yourself in peril for possible illness or death, according to Sacred Scripture. Let me know if you need the Scripture reference.
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robl
Guide
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Posts: 185
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Post by robl on Jan 30, 2009 19:40:03 GMT -5
This is true. However the scripture does not give the priest any authority to deny him communion. So this warning is really to fall on the partaker. And as the priest(bishop or pastor whichever term you use)he must make sure that the warning is given before the supper is partaken of. However I would implore you not to eat and drink damnation to yourself.
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Post by dianaholberg on Jan 31, 2009 9:03:16 GMT -5
Catholic communion is a "closed communion" meaning that it is only to be received by practicing Catholics. I know as a non-Catholic I was well aware of this in spite of not knowing anything about the Catholic faith.
This is not because we want to be rude -- it is because we are partaking of the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ. To receive, we must be in a state of grace -- meaning that we must not have any mortal sin on our souls. If we are aware of any grave sin in our lives, we are to make a sacramental Confession prior to receiving communion.
All of this is to help ensure that those who are receiving are fully aware of the gravity and meaning of what we are doing: receiving into our bodies the One, True, Living God.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Feb 2, 2009 8:18:20 GMT -5
Thanks for you caring both Diana and Robl, i am glad that you are both looking out for me in your own way.
However, i still consider myself a Catholic even if you do not, even if i cam the only one who does. I still value the teachings of Jesus, and can still feel him at work in my life. I can feel him in the Body and the Blood.
Thus i am not a non-believer, i am just a non-traditional believer. I forget the term, that i learned in religion class in college for a Catholic that also believes in other religions but whatever that term is I'm that.
Thanks Again.
P.S. In Advance, while we may continue this discussion based on what we feel makes a Catholic etc..... i do not wish to continue this discussion a personal level and argue about whether i am Catholic or not.
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robl
Guide
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Posts: 185
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Post by robl on Feb 3, 2009 14:06:30 GMT -5
My friend as ya'll well know I am not a catholic. I dont know that I would call myself protestant either. I would call myself a holiness Christian. I only warn you about partaking in communion because of the severity that goes with it. 1 Corinthians 11:28-31 KJV But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
This is where I get this warning from. I am sure that is the same scripture that catholics use as well(I could be wrong because like I said I am not a catholic). But I do know that this is the reason that we do not take the communion all the time in my church. But you will do as you choose to do. So just examine yourself. Oh yes and if you want a full study on the communion. this is a small exerpt from 1st Corinthians chapter 11. If you read that chatper you will find the regulations for hair on and man and a woman and for taking the Lord's Supper. If you are interested.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Feb 3, 2009 15:12:49 GMT -5
Robl your knowledge of the bible is impressive as always. I thank you very much for your concern. I took a look at first corinthians chapter 11 and saw a lot of things that pointed toward feminine inequality, it being evil for men to have long hair, etc... etc...
I think that just a great part of society does not take its fashion tips or its view of gender equality from this passage that i will also not take its view on communion and damnation. I just doesn't sit right. I know you think that makes me a blasphemer, but let me tell you i mean no disrespect. I just think ill take my chances thats all, i have to go with what the spirit is telling me.
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robl
Guide
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Posts: 185
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Post by robl on Feb 3, 2009 18:02:37 GMT -5
You see inequality because you see what you want to see. It sets forth that men and women are different. And each one has their place in society and under God. Your view is the same as most who are not Christians. You think that this stomps on a woman's rights. However it does no such thing. If you would read the scriptures as a whole you would see that both the man and the woman have responibility to God and to each other. A woman is to submit to her husband. But the man must take care of his wife in all things. Its a team this marriage thing. And this deals with both hair and what I was really getting at communion. But as I have said before. Its all or nothing. There is no middle ground with God. There is no two or three ways. There is only one way. And that is why you can not accept the Bible. Because you can not deny someone else's religion. But to be a Christian you must absolutely deny all other gods and religions. You must be sold out completely to God and his Word Jesus Christ.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Feb 3, 2009 20:07:28 GMT -5
That is why i cannot agree with every word in the bible word for word. A woman is to submit to her husband? That sounds like cultural influence of the time it was written in. As a historian i cannot help but seperate the historical / cultural influences from the relgious and spiritual guidelines. As for the all or nothing. I respect that as your view ... but the spirit is simply leading me in another direction ... that does not mean that i do no value Jesus, merely that i can also see the value in other faiths as well. Christians do not have a monopoly on truth.
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 4, 2009 0:23:55 GMT -5
Wives submitting to their husbands is far more than cultural. In every house, there must be leadership for there to be harmony. If you have two equals in every sense, what do you do when the two fundamentally disagree? All the Bible is saying is that when it comes to areas of disagreement, a wife may expect to be heard out, but ultimately it is the husband's decision. (Most husbands are wise enough to know that they need to decide in accord with the wife a good deal of the time to keep the peace... )
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Feb 4, 2009 7:34:39 GMT -5
Wives submitting to their husbands is far more than cultural. In every house, there must be leadership for there to be harmony. If you have two equals in every sense, what do you do when the two fundamentally disagree? All the Bible is saying is that when it comes to areas of disagreement, a wife may expect to be heard out, but ultimately it is the husband's decision. (Most husbands are wise enough to know that they need to decide in accord with the wife a good deal of the time to keep the peace... ) This is where i think modern more updated ideas can do wonders. I think if both fundamentally disagree that it is a mark of a good relationship, and a good marriage, to be able to communicate. This means that if there is a disagreement that as husband and wife, both know when to step back and take a little time to think about it. This might mean coming back when they aren't so angry, or coming back to the problem when they have both done more research. After this they can come back together and make a compromise, or decide to take one direction, with an advisement toward goin the other route if the first doesn't work. In other words, dictatorship doesn't work as a government, and i don't think it should be a model more marriage either.
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robl
Guide
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Posts: 185
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Post by robl on Feb 4, 2009 16:20:37 GMT -5
I can tell you that it is not the Holy Spirit you are led of my friend. It may be a spirit indeed. But it is not holy in any sense of the word. Nor is it of God. We as Christians have absolute truth. I will tell you with no restaints or convictions that indeed the Christian faith is the only truth to be had. And all other faiths are lies(maybe a gleam of truth mixed in with the lie to keep people blinded to the truth). In Shri-Lanka they are trying to stop Christian missionaries from helping the poor and poverty striken Buddists over there. Because they convert to Christianity as a result of the help they recieve. It is the devil trying his hardest to keep the eyes of the people blind to the truth. You really are not ever going to find the true path of enlightenment until you quit fighting God. And that is what you are indeed doing. All are not children of God. That is another lie told by the devil to appease the minds of the people under his control. Jesus said you are of your father the devil. And the deeds of your father you do. For he is a liar and the father of it. And there is no truth in him. You see Christians are the chilren of God by being born again. We were once the children of Satan. But now God has saved us and we are now his children. Truth can not and will not be found in all other religions. Compremise with the world is never the way of the Christian.
This trancends all cultural bounds. It goes down into the soul of a man to be a leader. And it is in the heart of a woman to be a care giver. Society in America has done its work to destroy this inherant instinct that God has placed with in the sexes. And if you followed saw how women are treated in other countries where the man does not follow the law of the Bible to love his wife as Christ loved the church. It is sickening to see how women can be mistreated. There is a balance. And the Bible is not limited to the culture of a people. Rather is trancends all cultural bounds.
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 4, 2009 18:19:28 GMT -5
This is where i think modern more updated ideas can do wonders. I think if both fundamentally disagree that it is a mark of a good relationship, and a good marriage, to be able to communicate. Agreed. The Christian approach does not preclude this -- that was an assumption on your part.What if no compromise is possible? For example, suppose a Catholic marries a non-Catholic. Catholics are bound by the Church to raise their children as Catholic. But suppose the non-Catholic partner is adamant that they do not want their children raised Catholic for a variety of reasons. Who wins out? This is the reason for many divorces. Disagreements like this over child-rearing, money, sex, religion -- those are the big four which cause divorce. If more people would adopt the traditional approach, our families would not be the pathetic splintered things that they are today.
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 4, 2009 18:27:26 GMT -5
I can tell you that it is not the Holy Spirit you are led of my friend. It may be a spirit indeed. But it is not holy in any sense of the word. Nor is it of God. I don't necessarily agree here. It is the rare Catholic these days who remains committed to partaking of Holy Communion on a weekly basis -- I contend it is God's Holy Spirit giving Jedi the desire and grace to continue, in spite of what he sees as objectionable about Christianity in general. This is another place where your views differ from the Catholic view. We believe the Christian (i.e., Catholic) Church founded by Jesus Christ has the fullness of truth, but -- as Jedi said -- not a monopoly. The Jews, for example, worship the one true God but not in the fullness of truth, for they do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as Messiah, much less as God the Son. That's just an example. Since most religion is man-made, and man is God-made, it only makes sense that aspects of the Truth would be reflected in every religion. I would say that God desires all to be His children, and that He created every person with the express purpose of being His children. Would you agree?
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