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Post by Tara on Oct 21, 2005 9:02:21 GMT -5
We should have a discussion on English language and it big variations. I'm trying to learn Cockney rhyming slang at the moment. I got a (Geoff) Hurst, means I got a first (class degree). I got a (Desmond) Tutu, means I got a 2:2 (lower second class) degree. Go ahead, have fun. It's interesting as English seems to be one of the hardest languages to learn. Especially with so many contradicitons and exceptions to rules.
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Post by cenk on Oct 21, 2005 10:01:34 GMT -5
Why do Americans change the spelling of some words in the English language. In proper English we spell Colour with a 'u' but in America they spell Colour like 'Color' basically the same as English but without the 'u'?
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Post by Tara on Oct 21, 2005 11:20:58 GMT -5
I honestly couldn't answer the question.
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Post by dianaholberg on Oct 21, 2005 16:55:17 GMT -5
littlepea will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure... but the question really should be why the "u" is added. Words like color and splendor are Latin, and do not contain the "u".
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Post by cenk on Oct 21, 2005 18:42:57 GMT -5
littlepea will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure... but the question really should be why the "u" is added. Words like color and splendor are Latin, and do not contain the "u". I think the just Americans got lazy and just dropped particluar vowels (particularly the letter 'u') in some words. But seriously I notice the French use alot of the letter 'u' like the English. Maybe the English have adapted spellings from the French and the Americans have adapted spellings from Latin. (Just a guess)
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Post by Mestemia on Oct 23, 2005 2:12:07 GMT -5
Seems it is a combination of the two: color c.1225, from O.Fr. colur, from L. color (acc. colorem) "color, hue," from Old L. colos, orig. "a covering" (akin to celare "to hide, conceal"), from PIE base *kel- "to cover, conceal" (see cell). O.E. words for "color" were hiw, bleo. The verb is from c.1300, earliest use is figurative. Colorful "interesting" is from 1889. Color-blind first recorded 1844. Colors "flag of a regiment or ship" is from 1590. Colored in reference to "non-white skin" dates from 1611. Coloring book is from 1931. Source: www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=color&searchmode=noneHere is an interesting explanation: NOTE: The correct spelling of the word is color. "Color" is based off of the Latin word (gasp) "Color". The French decided to alter the word, and the British, being the impressionable lot they were, decided to follow their lead. When the Americans won the war of 1812, they won the right to spell the word correctly. Since they lost, England was not only forced to vacate Canada and reside on a man-made island outside of France, but to continue adding unnecessary letters to their words.
Source: uncyclopedia.wikicities.com/wiki/Colour
another possible explanation: home.ched.coventry.ac.uk/studyskills/english/Spell-f.htm
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Post by dianaholberg on Oct 23, 2005 8:48:18 GMT -5
I love it... thanks PolyTheist! ;D
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Post by littlepea on Oct 23, 2005 21:17:18 GMT -5
since american's try to speak "English", surely the original English spelling should be more correct? the root of the word may have been the latin color but latin is not the only influence on the english language (otherwise we'd be speaking latin ... duh) so you can't just ignore the French influence when you start talking about how English words should be spelled if only the original root is relevant then why don't you write "colos" instead of "color", since that was the root of the latin color? Britain is famous for having never been conquered, rather we just assimilate our conquerors, come to some sort of middle-ground and call it British - hence English has been heavily influenced by latin, french, greek, norse and german (maybe one or two more that don't spring readily to mind - and not necessarily in that order). if you read the discworld novels by terry pratchett he makes this point in his descriptions of "Ankh-Morpork" here's another example of what i'm talking about: in latin, the letter g is always pronounced as a hard g (as in " go"), it is never a soft g (as in "vir gin"). even though the word "virgin" comes from the latin virgo, you'll never here anyone say that virgin should be pronounced with a hard g. the root of the word "virgin", however, also includes the old french "virgine", which is most likely where we get the soft g from. so if you don't ignore the french influence in pronunciation, why do you ignore it in spelling? PS. how is Great Britain a man-made island? PPS. why do american's say aluminum? it's aluminium - is it just the dumb americans that say aluminum or do most americans say aluminium like the brits? what am i talking about ... most americans are dumb americans
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Post by cenk on Oct 24, 2005 7:32:05 GMT -5
A few good points there littlepea. littlepea that link uncyclopedia.wikicities.com/wiki/Colour does not provide real information. Its meant to be funny. littlepea you have to understand that Americans want to be different from the English. The sad reality is that more people speak the erroraneous version of English that is 'American English' instead of real English. I think Americans are contaiminating the English language. You make a point about the influences in England. The Scots have many influences by the Norweigians and other vikings, the English AND the Irish. littlepea however makes the point that since Americans use our language they should try and spell and pronounciate words the proper way. At least the Canadians have retained the correct spelling of some words. I just hope their pronounciation of words hasn't been influenced by the Americans too much. I heard that in 1794 there was a vote in congress to make German the official language of the USA or to at least give it equal status to English but it failed by only 1 vote.
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Post by littlepea on Oct 24, 2005 11:20:20 GMT -5
York is a big viking city, but last time i checked it was south of the border vikings didn't break into southern england too much, but they have influenced the english language in ways. place names are the most common examples of the nordic influences, though i'm sure i could find examples of everyday words which have norse roots if you really wanted me to. the scots don't have their own language - there's gaelic, but that's practically identical to Irish and only spoken by the highlanders - lowland scots (including myself and those in Edinburgh and Glasgow) have pretty much always spoken english (or whatever the english were speaking at the time) but with the usual regional variations and slang (or is that what you were getting at in the first place?). i wouldn't say that americans pronounce many words differently from the english - there's aluminum, but that's just blatant ignorance; informed americans would say aluminium, i'm sure. there's "soccer", but that's just an americanism and posh english people (ie. rugby fans) call football soccer as well (since it's short for "association football" rather than "rugby football"). the things that i find funny (and you often hear english comedians exaggerating this when they do impressions of GW Bush) are when americans say things like "obligated" instead of "obliged" etc ... it just sounds so unsophisticated ;D and cenk, my point about the latin and french influences was not in response to polytheist's post, since obviously that was a load of shite, but rather it was in reposne to diana's first post since she asked the same question but in a serious manner i'm not sure that many people do speak american english more than british english. perhaps more in number (ie. america is 5 times the size of the UK and asians seem to be more influenced by american than british culture) but i'm sure any european learning english will learn the british spellings and people learning english in former countries of the british empire will do the same (eg. hong kong, south africa, canada ... ). they speak british english in australia too (hence the famous soap opera is "neighbours", not "neighbors" ). in other words, all the cool people use british spellings, not american spellings (where's tiger when you need her? )
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Post by ophelia97 on Oct 24, 2005 16:22:29 GMT -5
German lost by just one vote? I had trouble learning German, especially with all the noun cases (absolut worst part of learning languages in my opinion!) but I'm not sure if all Germanic languages including English are difficuly to foreigners. English is notorious for being difficult, so I'm glad it wasn't my second language.
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Post by Mestemia on Feb 17, 2006 19:06:02 GMT -5
I use the spellings I was taught. I lived in Germany for a few years and was taught the European spellings for many words.
I never understood the problems people have with different spellings of different words. I would think that the differing definitions would be more of a heated debate, but no. People would much rather banter on and on about the spelling differences.
Go figure.
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Post by cenk on Feb 18, 2006 8:59:19 GMT -5
Your right PolyTheist if Americans are forced to learn the "English" that Noah Webster created in 1828. Then maybe the British shouldn't make fun of them. #lol#
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Post by Mestemia on Feb 18, 2006 11:14:16 GMT -5
I do not even call it English in most cases. I call it American.
Why? Because a torch is a stick with fire on one end. Not a flashflight.
;D
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Post by littlepea on Feb 18, 2006 15:11:41 GMT -5
merely a colloquialism
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