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Post by Tara on Feb 21, 2006 21:53:54 GMT -5
I do not even call it English in most cases. I call it American. Why? Because a torch is a stick with fire on one end. Not a flashflight. ;D ;D
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Post by cenk on Feb 24, 2006 16:03:06 GMT -5
Thats nice! You usurp Englands language, change a few spellings and change the way the words are meant to be pronounced (ie you pronounce words like you actually dont know English) and call it American.
I heard that some Americans when asked about their ethnicity say they are American. What a joke.
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 24, 2006 20:27:34 GMT -5
American is a lot easier to say than Norwegian-British-German-Irish. What would you have us say? I may be able to say "of European descent", but I suspect you wouldn't agree with that either...
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Post by Tara on Feb 25, 2006 12:13:01 GMT -5
American would your nationality. Ethnicity is what you're really made up of.
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 25, 2006 15:03:02 GMT -5
So are you saying that I should be answering Norwegian-British-German-Irish?
Sorry... I'm not going for it. Particularly since there is nothing of those cultures that I claim. Culturally, I'm American... I'd much rather say that than "mutt".
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Feb 25, 2006 15:04:24 GMT -5
its rather humourous that you mention that, cuase thats often what i say (mutt) before i go into the exact countries in my background. ;D
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Post by littlepea on Feb 25, 2006 16:32:08 GMT -5
Thats nice! You usurp Englands language, change a few spellings and change the way the words are meant to be pronounced (ie you pronounce words like you actually dont know English) and call it American. similarly, if you take English, give it an incomprehensible accent and take out all the rules of spelling, grammar and pronounciation then you get Scots. maybe that says something about our various cultures if asked about my nationality i say Scotland, not the UK or Great Britain, and if someone asks me my ethnicity i say "white" or "caucasian". i wouldn't expect anyone to go into their specific roots unless specifically asked. to clarify for the people who are commenting in response to this comment - i think cenk was laughing at how americans think "american" is an appropriate answer where people are expecting to be told "white/black/hispanic/other" ...
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 25, 2006 17:06:36 GMT -5
Caucasian is my race. My ethnicity I've listed twice... but as it is pretty meaningless to list four groups with which I'm so loosely associated, American makes the most sense. littlepea, I believe you are confusing "ethnicity" with "race". Perhaps cenk is as well. From the Oxford English Dictionary: ethnic • adjective 1 relating to a group of people having a common national or cultural tradition. 2 referring to origin by birth rather than by present nationality: ethnic Albanians. 3 relating to a non-Western cultural tradition: ethnic music.
— DERIVATIVES ethnically adverb ethnicity noun.
— ORIGIN Greek ethnikos ‘heathen’, from ethnos ‘nation’. Given this definition (or even the second one, for many Americans) -- which is clearly not only the American English one -- "American" is a perfectly good response to the question.
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Post by littlepea on Feb 25, 2006 17:53:23 GMT -5
fair enough, though often in questionaires and applications they use "ethnicity" to mean "race" since it's slightly more politically correct. for the record: eth·nic adj. 1. 1. Of or relating to a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. 2. Being a member of a particular ethnic group, especially belonging to a national group by heritage or culture but residing outside its national boundaries: ethnic Hungarians living in northern Serbia. 3. Of, relating to, or distinctive of members of such a group: ethnic restaurants; ethnic art. 2. Relating to a people not Christian or Jewish; heathen. ( dictionary.com) and ... race 2 • noun 1 each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics. 2 racial origin or distinction: rights based on race. 3 a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group. 4 a group of people or things with a common feature. 5 Biology a distinct population within a species; a subspecies. — USAGE Some people now feel that the word race should be avoided, because of its associations with the now discredited theories of 19th-century anthropologists and physiologists about supposed racial superiority. Terms such as people, community, or ethnic group are less emotionally charged. Oxford Dictionarycuriously my first point of reference was an american dictionary, yours was an english dictionary race has more of an implication of skin-colour so i suppose you are correct, but i still insist that they are used interchangeably as "ethnicity" is more PC than "race". mind you, if the option is left open i might say scottish for either ethnicity or race, especially now i am aware that there is a certain overlap within the meanings of the words ... that could just be because i get a bit silly when it comes to the possibility of being as proud a scot as possible ;D i think it should be possible to say phrases like "the French race" or "the German race" or "the English race" ... i think it would be incorrect to say "the British race", however, since Britain is made up of 4 technically separate nations - it is equally as absurd as saying "the European race" (i suppose some people might say that instead of "caucasian", but in the context that i mean it's like referring to Europe as a single nation).
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Post by cenk on Feb 25, 2006 18:15:42 GMT -5
There is no such ethnicity called American. American is a nationality but it is not an ethnicity. Like British isn't a ethnicity and European isn't an ethncity - American isn't an ethncity. New Yorker, Texan, Londoner, Parisian, Berliner, Australian, Canadian and American are not ethncities. Do y'all (since this thread is about langauge I'd like to point out that this word is symbollic to show the way "Americans" have retarded English words just so they use less effort from their mouths to produce sounds) see what I mean?
Your nationality is American, America has its own culture but that just shows your an American it doesn't show that your ethnic group is "American". Diana I remember way back you said you have Norwegian origins now you are Norwegian-British-German-Irish. So to me that sounds like you identify more with you Norwegian roots, do you??
America is an artificial name created by Europeans when they allegedly "discovered" the landmass known as the Americas. America is named after some Italian dude called Amerigo Vespucci.
Can you see Amerigo =====> America.
How can white, black, oriental (I dont care if thats politically incorrect in the USA) and "south Asian" people all claim to be of the same ethnicity. How can they all claim to be American? Am I missing something I as many British people dont claim to have a British ethnicity.
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Post by dianaholberg on Feb 25, 2006 18:17:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I knew no one would want Americans to start calling themselves Europeans...
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Post by littlepea on Feb 25, 2006 18:34:53 GMT -5
There is no such ethnicity called American. American is a nationality but it is not an ethnicity. Like British isn't a ethnicity and European isn't an ethncity - American isn't an ethncity. New Yorker, Texan, Londoner, Parisian, Berliner, Australian, Canadian and American are not ethncities. Do y'all (since this thread is about langauge I'd like to point out that this word is symbollic to show the way "Americans" have retarded English words just so they use less effort from their mouths to produce sounds) see what I mean? Your nationality is American, America has its own culture but that just shows your an American it doesn't show that your ethnic group is "American". Diana I remember way back you said you have Norwegian origins now you are Norwegian-British-German-Irish. So to me that sounds like you identify more with you Norwegian roots, do you?? America is an artificial name created by Europeans when they allegedly "discovered" the landmass known as the Americas. America is named after some Italian dude called Amerigo Vespucci. Can you see Amerigo =====> America. How can white, black, oriental (I dont care if thats politically incorrect in the USA) and "south Asian" people all claim to be of the same ethnicity. How can they all claim to be American? Am I missing something I as many British people dont claim to have a British ethnicity. technically within the meaning of the word "ethnicity" you could talk of a british ethnicity, since even though it is made up of separate nations, i think there is a definite cultural similarity between people who believe in the union. certainly unionists in northern ireland and certain parts of scotland tend to be complete arseholes.
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Post by cenk on Feb 25, 2006 19:02:11 GMT -5
Huh? This is a totally separate topic. This topic is about the English LANGUAGE not whether or not culture defines ethnicity or what defines ethnicity.
Lets talk about language.
Germanic Europeans who colonized the land mass that was named after an Italian. However since these Germanic peoples didn't want to have their destiny controlled by their brothers who lived on the other side of the ocean - they fought against them, won and declared independence. Then Noah Webster wanted to change English into what he wanted and the result of this is now know by Americans as "American".
Eventually these primarily Germanic people who occupied the land mass they named after that Italian dude became more and more lazy in their speech. They could not be bothered to say full words so they created shortened versions of words which require less effort to be spoken. Some Americans even slowed down the rate of which English is spoken at that they sound like idiots.
If Americans want to know why some people think they are dumb its because some Americans take a minute to say ten words.
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Post by littlepea on Feb 25, 2006 19:20:20 GMT -5
the talk of ethnicity concerns the meaning of the words "ethnicity" and "race", so it's not totally off-topic.
that's a rather belligerent explanation, but i agree that american accents do sound a lot less sophisticated than english accents, and american words often look a lot less sophisticated than british words (eg. "obligated" instead of merely "obliged").
language is how we use it, the definitions of words are not set in stone, that's why dictionaries have to be updated every so often. if everyone in the USA spells it "color" then that might as well be the "correct" spelling, and the same goes for every other aspect of language, i think.
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Post by Mestemia on Feb 26, 2006 1:54:02 GMT -5
Thats nice! You usurp Englands language, change a few spellings and change the way the words are meant to be pronounced (ie you pronounce words like you actually dont know English) and call it American. I heard that some Americans when asked about their ethnicity say they are American. What a joke. Don't even get me started.... I am an American. If that fact happens to get under the skin of certain people than that is THEIR problem. Not mine. I wonder if cenk would be so kind as to show me where england and Britian and Germany were there from the begining of time. It is my understanding that each one of the afore mentioned places actually came some time after the 'original' race/ethnicallity. Which would put them all in the exact same boat that he is so adamant upon putting America in.
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