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Post by dianaholberg on May 26, 2007 11:29:11 GMT -5
Hi jedi, I wish you great love, but I sense much anger in your post, and avoidance to issues, through discrediting. Before I get into a response, I have to tell you that when I got to the end of yours and read this, I had to laugh. First, I couldn't be less angry when it comes to this subject. I find gender roles to be among the most beautiful aspects of God's creation. Just this morning I was watching a lovely bird couple on the roof next door. The male was in the forefront, keeping an eye out for danger, while the female stood a little further back and to the side. Both were chirping at each other and I could just imagine their conversation... him saying, "Don't worry -- if anything dangerous comes I'll fend it off so you can escape!" and her responding, "How could I fear when I have such protection as yours!" Meanwhile, of course, both are relatively defenseless birds. But in their little bird world, they are a gallant prince and princess. So we are -- puffing up here and there. How can one be angry when we are all like little birds here? But, we're here for discussion, so here goes... but I sense I should take your points in the opposite order they were presented, because your view is nearly the exact opposite of mine on this subject. No -- once again you are not hearing what I am saying. I said nothing of a family unit. What I have said applies well within the family unit, but that is just one example. By this post you prove that you have not. You know, on second thought, I would probably be wasting words to respond further unless you agree to start listening to what I'm actually saying instead of projecting what you already believe upon my reponses. So... just let me know when you make this adjustment and we can continue.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on May 26, 2007 11:34:47 GMT -5
I'm not trying to project anything upon what you are saying, i am going soley on the words of your posts. How about you try to explain what you are really trying to say, and i will try again to listen. Love and Light, Jedi Velarius KEnobi however, i will ask that you drop the superiority ...
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Post by dianaholberg on May 26, 2007 11:37:20 GMT -5
No superiority -- just truth. I never made reference to a family unit, or to women staying at home. If I did, please show me where.
So long as you insist on projecting to me attributes which are not mine, this is useless.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on May 26, 2007 11:39:01 GMT -5
I'm not interested in your martyr act love . I'm ready to listen as you asked if you are ready to speak.
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Post by dianaholberg on May 26, 2007 11:41:39 GMT -5
No act. If I'm lying, show me. If not, admit it. Otherwise, we're done for now.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on May 26, 2007 11:42:45 GMT -5
we're done, i only responded to points made in your posts, if you do not want to discuss them, only to act mistreated, then there is no love or understanding to be found here.
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Post by dianaholberg on May 26, 2007 11:43:54 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought that would be the response. I guess the Jedi Code doesn't extend to honesty? Oh well...
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on May 26, 2007 11:46:51 GMT -5
I wish you love Diana, i would be willing to admit to a lie had a made one. I only responded to things you said in the post, maybe i confused your agument with Teancum's which we could get to if you would agree to discuss.
I find it interesting that when pressed you fall back on making fun of the Jedi Code my spirituality, instead of making a valid point.
I choose love, not fear,
Jedi VElarius Kenobi
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Post by dianaholberg on May 26, 2007 11:48:26 GMT -5
Do you not consider yourself to be a representative of your spirituality?
I don't feel pressed. You admit you may have confused responses -- thank you.
You have offered to take this up in IM, and that may be better. Than maybe there won't be so much misperception of intention.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on May 26, 2007 11:51:03 GMT -5
Well i actually need to eat lunch with the family, perhaps anther time. However, discredit not next time, but rather discuss the issues.
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Post by dianaholberg on May 26, 2007 11:52:13 GMT -5
Back to you
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Post by teancum79 on May 26, 2007 23:05:48 GMT -5
I know that people work on teams and all that. There is a problem when their are attempts to force a particular outcome. For example my Ethnic relations teacher told our class about a friend of his who does a far bit of hiring for a company. This guy has to prove that the white guy is better qualified than the none white guy or he can't hire him. Some people simply stop hiring white males because they don't want to appear to be raciest, but that is just what happens.
If women or men have different standards for their performance or qualifications than things are not equal. If equality is the goal than special rules to get more of group A or B to work this or that job is wrong.
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Post by dianaholberg on May 27, 2007 6:41:26 GMT -5
Yes, it's the same problem that surfaced with affirmative action laws. Initially necessary to break through real barriers, but not the best approach in the long run.
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Post by teancum79 on May 27, 2007 13:36:37 GMT -5
According to one of the primary theory's on racism (and I would include sexism) the more noticeable the differences the more hatred will exist. When a guy like myself goes to get a job and on the application it asks you to tell females and minorities that they should apply I know I'm not getting an interview. This is a disservice to the white male but it also hurts women and minorities. When I get a job I know it is because of my qualifications. Sadly because of reverse discrimination many women and minorities don't really know if they have the job because of their qualifications or because they are the right race and gender. That really undermines peoples ability to feel confidant.
Just so we are clear I'm not saying that this happens in all cases and maybe not even in the majority of cases. If I got a job because of my race religion gender etc. I would feel very insulted. I'm a hard working effective employee. I want a job because I can do it not because of my sex or race.
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Post by Amalcas on May 27, 2007 18:42:36 GMT -5
I always feel the name "reverse discrimination" does not do the phenomenon credit; it is discrimination, no puttering around. However, is it truly unjust? That is certainly debatable, but I tend to think it is (my concession is that, between equally qualified individuals, one may accept a discriminatory basis in selecting the final candidate). This is discrimination for a peculiar purpose: equality. In how many households are the children taught to treat the "black man" just like the "white man," in how many houses do they talk about giving the same opportunities to the "girls" and the "boys"? Prejudice is not, and never was, a product of hate. As Teancum aptly pointed out, it is a product of difference, or, more accurately, the perception of difference. When we teach our children to harbor no hate of our fellow man, though he be different from us, we teach this difference, we teach this discrimination. Inevitably, with a different stimulus, there will be a different result; prejudice is when we are trained to alter our perception according to certain patterns, thus resulting in predictable variations in behavior, be it hate and violence or unease and conciliatory behavior. I began to realize this, in a vague way, early in life; thus, I have fought not to perceive these differences as hard as I can, which has its own problems (how does one remember to forget?). Still, it is hard, particularly after I've been talking about it; I think this sort of thing applies fairly universally, not that I'm advocating ignoring the problem, simply warning that to fight the monster is to become the monster. This reminds me not-so-vaguely of an essay I wrote recently on anti-intellectualism, which I meant to post here. I will do that, then.
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