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Post by cenk on Oct 17, 2005 15:28:30 GMT -5
the rest of the stuff you are unfit to comment on since you are not Scottish (and clearly you have a typical southern english attitude that all things north of london don't matter). just wait till the british government starts treating the english like it's treating the scots just now, but by that time we'll be so down-trodden that we won't even remember what the word "revolution" means ... Whoaa! If I'm unfit to comment then I'm unfit to go and protest for the recognision of the Highland Clearances at Downing Street and Parliament. I would protest when I get back to London its not hard for me to travel to Central London. If you really want me too? Educate me more on it. Your right! Thats what I'm doing in the other post with PolyTheist I'm standing up for the rights of Muslims around the world. I should start standing up for the rights of my Turkic brethren that have been slaughtered and oppressed in Russia, in China and in Europe(to a much smaller extent).
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Post by littlepea on Oct 17, 2005 18:59:57 GMT -5
you are unfit to comment on what scottish children are taught in schools since you have never been a scottish child and you aren't a teacher in scotland, yet you tell me i'm just paranoid ... you shouldn't join a protest if you don't know what it's about, but you shouldn't oppose it either, so shut your face till you have something useful to say. i'm not sure if the british government has officially apologized for the highland clearances (i'm not an expert on it), but i'm not protesting (yet), i'm just gob-smacked that you've never even heard about such an important event in the history of a british country ... look it up for yourself, it's pretty well documented, and you will see the truth for yourself rather than hearing it from me - it's better to go to the source rather than have someone paraphrase what they've read (wouldn't you agree, diana? )
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Post by dianaholberg on Oct 17, 2005 19:46:34 GMT -5
Always best to go to the source... that's why prayer is so effective.
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Post by littlepea on Oct 18, 2005 5:46:08 GMT -5
nice one, diana, i like it ;D
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Post by cenk on Oct 18, 2005 8:17:22 GMT -5
you are unfit to comment on what scottish children are taught in schools since you have never been a scottish child and you aren't a teacher in scotland, yet you tell me i'm just paranoid ... Please remind me when I commented on what Scottish children are taught in schools!? I'm saying your paranoid because you give me the impression that you think England is out to get Scotland. Really I thought the more people the better thats normally how it works. My uncle lives in Edinburgh he has never mentioned the highland clearances. But what I have noticed is that Scots especially in northern Scotland have high levels of anti-English resentment. If its due to the highland clearances now I know why. In anyways I cant speak on behalf of every school in England, there could be schools that teach about the highland clearances. I think I can understand why English school children haven't learnt about the highland clearances, because it was just another dark day in English history. You got to remember there are alot of events in English history. In the ideal world it would be great if I could have learnt about every crime against humanity that was committed by England. Do you expect American schools to teach the fact the US bombed a factory in Sudan (one of the poorest countries, where diseases and illness are widespread) thinking it was producing chemical weapons. It was actually producing medicines for the Sudanese.
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Post by littlepea on Oct 18, 2005 12:48:45 GMT -5
no, but america seems like a practically fascist country anyway, so i wouldn't expect anything other than completely pro-US history being taught in schools and pro-US news reports (hopefully we are not at that stage ourselves, are we?) ... the highland clearances are hardly talked about these days (so it's no surprise that your uncle hasn't heard about them just by living in edinburgh), i just mentioned it here because i thought it was relavent to the bloody history of the British Empire (which i originally brought up to remind you not to think that you're so much better than americans). i can't speak for the northerners (seeing as i'm a "sassenach" - a lowlander) but the highland clearances could be a reason why they are so anti-english. it could just be that they are further away from the border and don't encounter so many english people, so they are just ignorant racists (rather than informed racists like me ), but who knows ... you may call it paranoia, but what am i supposed to think when i hear that the british governement lied to the scots to suppress independance and take our oil, and then the media don't make a big deal out of it. and then i start reading about massacres in my own town which i have never heard about before. it's not just England that's out to get Scotland, it's everyone that's in power (scottish and english) doing what they can to suppress nationalism, and it sickens me ... in any case - just because i'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get me
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Post by cenk on Oct 18, 2005 16:37:37 GMT -5
no, but america seems like a practically fascist country anyway, so i wouldn't expect anything other than completely pro-US history being taught in schools and pro-US news reports (hopefully we are not at that stage ourselves, are we?) ... the highland clearances are hardly talked about these days (so it's no surprise that your uncle hasn't heard about them just by living in edinburgh), i just mentioned it here because i thought it was relavent to the bloody history of the British Empire (which i originally brought up to remind you not to think that you're so much better than americans). I agree a country that requires school children to sing the national anthem daily and requires flags to be hung around schools all the time must be seen as an extremely nationalist country. Again you seem to be linking my past to that of the British Empire. How can I put it any clearer to you I am not English, I am British by paper. I think I already said that during the First World war Britain tried to eradicate my nation off the face of the planet. So linking me with Britains bloody past is disrespectful to my ancestors that fought for my nation of origin's survival. Don't get me wrong my loyality is with Britain and England but please don't confuse me with Englands past. Would you like it if I blame you (a Scot, whose ancestors have probably been living in the British Isles for 1,000 years) for the massacres commited by the British (Doesn't leave out the Scots) to the Indians back in the 19th century. I am aware that England is by no means better than America. I am aware that both Americans and the English have RAPED entire continents as well as commiting other crimes against humanity. Ahh dont worry I go through that phase sometimes. Its like I read that Stalin killed at least 10,000,000 of my ancestors. It makes the blood boil. Nationalism is not necessarily a good thing. Look at America white people think they own the place. I think if nationalism was allowed to run high in Britian then there would be alot of conflict caused the BNP. You must remember the riots in Bradford and Burnley. Britain is home to alot of Ethnic minorities and nationalism in England would lead to a rise in BNP support amongst the English at the expense of inter-ethnic relations that are good in many parts of the country (well at least in the areas of Birmingham and London I've spent reasonable amounts of time).
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Post by littlepea on Oct 18, 2005 16:56:53 GMT -5
ah, i see, i didn't know what you meant when you first said that England tried to eradicate your country off the face of the earth (i thought you were taking the piss out of me, as if that's what i was trying to say ... ), but i see where you're coming from. i wasn't blaming you for the bad things the British have done in the past (my ancestors on my dad's side have all come from southern scotland and northern england, my mum's have been irish and scottish - so i would be more to blame than you if we were going down that route), i was just reminding you that the country of which you are a proud citizen has a bloodier history than the US to date ... but you're aware of that, so i don't have anything to add scottish nationalism is all about independance, though, it's not as bad as the british nationalists who are basically just racist, skinhead, anarchist thugs. at least, that's all i mean by scottish nationalism (Alex Salmond, the leader of the SNP, is a pretty well respected politician and if you ever listen to him when he's on tv or radio shows like "Question Time" you'd hear for yourself that he talks a lot of sense).
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Post by cenk on Oct 19, 2005 5:23:57 GMT -5
I don't oppose Scottish Independence but I dont actively support it either.
Back to Native Americans. Apparantly the Genocide of the Native Americans continued up until the 1890's. I'm just wandering what? if any compensation has been given to the Native Americans?
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Post by Tara on Oct 21, 2005 18:47:23 GMT -5
Reservations where they are allowed to have their own laws...? (Soverign nations)
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Post by cenk on Oct 21, 2005 19:05:49 GMT -5
Reservations where they are allowed to have their own laws...? (Soverign nations) Is that all? You mean that these natives some of which lived on the same piece of land for 1,000's of years. Were severely reduced in number by the Americans (and Europeans prior to American independence). Some of which were pushed west 100's and some over a 1000 miles from their original settlements were only given the right to have their own laws in the tiny little scattered pieces of land they currently reside in. Do you think that is just?
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Post by littlepea on Oct 21, 2005 21:56:39 GMT -5
better than nothing, though perhaps more could be done.
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Post by Tara on Oct 22, 2005 10:09:37 GMT -5
Do you think that is just? Absolutely not. And also, if anyone is interested, you might want to look into some banks in which freed African slaves put money into only for it to be stolen and never to be reimbursed.
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Post by cenk on Oct 22, 2005 10:19:49 GMT -5
Oh man I got to stop learning about injustices in the world its starting to get to me alot now. I've decided that when I get my student loan (in a few days time hopefully)I'm going to sponsor a orphan because if I can spend money on fun, going out and holidays then I can spend some money on helping a orphan.
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Post by Tara on Oct 22, 2005 12:10:53 GMT -5
Awww. Well, I do recall a woman saying, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."
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