Spirit of Elijah

[dianaholberg]

In another thread, cenk said:

cenk said:

Jesus says that Elias(Elijah) has already come, he says that Elias is John the Baptist.

John then CONTRADICTS Jesus by saying that he is NOT Elias.

Jesus's claim
The Gospel According to Saint Matthew.
17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Johns testimony
The Gospel According to Saint John.
1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

This can be a challenge to faith if you let it. But the Bible is clear that John the Baptist carried the "spirit of Elijah" (described in 2 Kings 2) -- even if John himself didn't understand this. We know this, not only because of what Jesus said in the verse you quoted, but also because God's angel told John's father:

Luke 1:11-17
11 And an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing to the right of the altar of incense. 12 Zacharias was troubled when he saw the angel, and fear gripped him. 13 But the angel said to him, " Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14 "You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

[/u] 16 "And he will turn many of the sons of Israel back to the Lord their God. 17 "It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,[/u] TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." [/i][/blockquote]
By the way, John the Baptist was not the only fulfillment of the prophecy of Malachi 4:5. Elijah himself also was sent, but only appeared to a few apostles with Jesus (Matthew 17:3-4; Mark 9:4-5; Luke 9:30-33).

[cenk]

What I gather from Mathew 17:12-13 and John 1:19-21 is that either one of them (John or Jesus) is not telling the truth. I wouldn't want to speculate which one wasn't telling the truth, as I am not a Christian...

Would anyone like to hazzard a guess?

[teancum79]

Elias is a title that means one who comes before or prepares a way.

Elijah is a particular prophet who should not be confused with Elias (though to some degree I guess Elijah coming before the great and terrible day of the Lord could let him have the title of Elias.)

[dianaholberg]

teancum, what language is Elias, or is it a name? Where is it in Scripture?

[teancum79]

I did a little digging and this is what I found, it is no wonder that it gets confusing.
There are several uses of the name or title Elias in the scriptures:
Elijah: Elias is the New Testament (Greek) form of Elijah (Hebrew), as in Matt. 17: 3-4, Luke 4: 25-26, and James 5: 17. In these instances, Elias was the ancient prophet Elijah whose ministry is recorded in 1 and 2 Kings.
Forerunner: Elias is also a title for one who is a forerunner. For example, John the Baptist was an Elias because he was sent to prepare the way for Jesus (Matt. 17: 12-13).
Restorer: The title Elias has also been applied to others who had specific missions to fulfill, such as John the Revelator
A man in Abraham’s dispensation: A prophet called Esaias or Elias who apparently lived in the days of Abraham

I think it makes things nice and clear as mud. Having differing Greek and Hebrew names never helps.

Anyhow as best as I can tell there is Elijah (the OT dude with lots of cool stories), John the Baptist, The title or concept which is neither person and maybe some other guys with the same name.

[dianaholberg]

Since the OT is in primarily written in Hebrew and the NT is in Greek, every OT name mentioned in the NT will be the Greek equivalent. For example, "Christ" is the Greek for "Messiah" ("anointed").

Elias is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Elijah, which means "my God is Jehovah".

My sources say there were three OT prophets with this name; no reference to John the Baptist or "forerunner" -- but I can see how that connection has been made from the angel Gabriel's words to Zechariah in Luke 1:17.