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Post by littlepea on Dec 19, 2005 22:38:46 GMT -5
not sure exactly which forum would be most appropriate for this topic, but i'll put it here since this is probably the most relevant place for it. i was watching tv the other night and it was some reality tv show like the x-factor or pop idol except it was for dancing and involved celebrities (it's called "strictly come dancing", dunno if they've made an american version yet but i'm sure cenk would know the name). anyway, after the last couple had done their dance (which was really very good) one of the presenters was congratulating them and singing their praises and saying what qualities they displayed etc. one of which was "courageousness" ... why not say "courage"? you may well laugh, but this sort of thing should really be clamped down on before it's too late. george orwell was getting at in the book "1984" with the "newspeak" thing - if you can cut down on the use of proper language then you can stifle creativity and oppress people's power to think since they don't possess the words to express their feelings. people, particularly those in the media, should not be allowed to use sloppy grammar, misspell or mispronounce words or anything like that, it simply shouldn't be ... (incidentally, i'm struggling to think of the right word here) ... tolerated (that's the one ... ). it's worse in america. maybe you don't notice it so much, but whenever i watch american films it always makes me grimace when i hear things like "obligated" instead of "obliged" and it happens all the time
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Post by Tara on Dec 20, 2005 11:09:57 GMT -5
lol I don't know what to say littlepea. lol I mean, I agree, stupidity shouldn't be allowed in the media and all. But I will tell you, growing up in the U.S., people couldn't care less about how people speak. That's why so many of us still have so many problems learning English (whether it be speaking, or writing). No one really cares. Parents won't correct their children if they speak using the wrong words, and teachers have the tendency to care just as much. I've even witnessed some Englished teachers using improper grammar. I do care, though, and I try my best, but I know I'm not perfect and I still make mistakes. I think it might have to do with how we care for creativity and the arts. If you look carefully, such cultural things are not widely embraced. One of my former teachers told us of a story about how he went to a poetry reading here in the states. He said that when he showed up at the auditorium, there was only him, the poet and a few other people. He spoke to the poet and the poet said he was not surprised. He said he has better luck in places like Europe where art and literature is more revered and recognized. The only thing we care about here in the states are celebrities and the media. Really, it sucks.
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Post by dianaholberg on Dec 28, 2005 11:08:45 GMT -5
We've all become common... but that was our goal in embracing equality for all.
I think, though, that there is an increasing number of Americans who are beginning to understand what we gave up in throwing out the concept of nobility. In a lot of ways, we've dropped to the lowest common denominator -- and it's not pretty. But more and more I hear people expressing a desire to raise the bar.
So I believe it's only a matter of time before Americans take that seriously and embrace more traditional goals and values -- hopefully preserving in the meantime the best of what we've learned about the benefits of impartiality.
(I'll refrain from voicing my opinion about applying adjectives like "courage" to acts of eating bugs and feces or singing publicly.)
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Post by cenk on Dec 28, 2005 11:45:05 GMT -5
I think George Orwell was a good expert on the English language. I read an essay of his on "politics and the English language" its quite good. www.privateline.com/Orwell/orwell.htmlI still cant understand this sentence: "I am not, indeed, sure, whether it is not true to say that the Milton who once seemed not unlike a seventeenth−century Shelley had not become, out of an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien [sic] to the founder of that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate."
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Post by littlepea on Mar 8, 2006 15:44:32 GMT -5
i'm currently listening to a very intellectual debate on BBC radio 4 (the radio station for mature and intelligent listeners) about the morality of euthanasia (i think), and i just heard one of the speakers talk of "intentionality" ... *sigh* ... why not just use the word "intention"?
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Post by littlepea on Mar 8, 2006 17:07:16 GMT -5
oh yeah, and i just read the article cenk linked (either i didn't see it or i didn't bother reading it earlier) - fascinating stuff. i notice what he's getting at in tutorials all the time - people are more concerned with being politically correct than with simply saying what they mean and when students answer questions they always start with "is it not that ... blah de blah de blah" - usually it's possible to make out what they mean but it wastes so much time. out of my despise for this habit i consciously try to be as un-PC as possible in the way i express my views, since if being PC softens the blow to the detriment of the meaning then the reverse must be true as well (being un-PC intensifies the meaning - and i don't care if people are shocked or offended ). overall, i'd say the experiment has been a success before anyone has a go at me, being politically incorrect is different from going out of your way to cause insult. i don't mean that i express intentionally inflammatory opinions just to piss people off (eg. i don't tell the class that all the girls should go home and get the dinner ready for their dads and brothers - it's irrelevant and personally i consider myself a feminist), i just mean that i don't beat about the bush when i want to say something.
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Post by teancum79 on Mar 8, 2006 23:17:40 GMT -5
well I'm not too big on being P.C., but I do think that avoiding some "4 letter words" and racial slurs is good. Beyond that I don't care all that much about what I call things. I think being direct and clear should be the priority.
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