Ideal Society

[Tara]

Let's say you were given a certain country to work with. Let's say for some reason, you become the leader of this country. The people have given up everything they have to allow you to work your power over them. Construct your ideal society. What kinds of rules would you have? What kinds of regulations? Let's say you're country is the second richest in the world (U.S. exists in this scenario and they're the richest). What woudl your country be like? What kinds of people? Will religion play any sort of role? What about the lifestyle?

For people who may not get this; if you're familiar with the SimCity series...

[teancum79]

Interesting let’s see

For starters religion would be a part of the society. People would be free to have whatever religious views they wish, but there would be none of this you can’t put up Christmas colors because someone who may not like the holiday might get offended.

I would keep the laws simple, but strict murder, adultery, lying etc. all would be illegal

I’d have a health and safety commission that would look into pollution illness and other things that hurt people like the EPA, FDA and OSHA and who knows what else all rolled into one. No political agendas just the health and safety of people.

I would impose regulations on media they would not be allowed to promote senseless violence and criminal activity. Drugs would only be used for medical purposes.

There would be job agencies and welfare programs set up to help people help themselves.

Oh yes there would be a great educational system the criminal justice system would be dividend into two groups. Those who can be reformed and those who will be banned from society.

If need be we would have a respectable standing army, but I would encourage everyone to be armed and able to fight should there be a need. We would not play world police.

Immigration would be limited so that there would be enough jobs for everyone. Discrimination based on race would be forbidden.

Abortion would be illegal. Public homosexuality would not be permitted. There would be regulations on business practices would be monitored. Taxes would be fairly low most of the social burden would be dealt with by families. People would take responsibility for their actions.

Well I think that covers the basics I might add a few other things as they pop up

[Tara]

Very interesting teancum.

Anyone else? C'mon, you know you have some ideas of yur own.

[teancum79]

Oh a few extra tid bits (this is fun you guys should have a go at it)

Petroleum would not be in major use. Ethanol is a good fuel for cars and wind/solar and nuclear power could supply the rest of the energy needs.

Wealth would not be the primary goal of the society. People, family, love and knowledge would be exalted as core values.
Our primary exports would be electronics, research and family centered tourism. There would also be a lot of green friendly agriculture going on.

Oh and my drug restriction includes nicotine alcohol and caffeine.

I figure it is a bit too good to be true, but I like it

[ophelia97]

It would involve working heavily alongside the citizens to decide what everyone wanted; it sounds too much like Communism for me to control everything by myself.

Freedom in society presents problems and difficulties, but in the long run, but there are too many benefits that are overlooked or taken for granted.

If I ran a country, war with other countries would be avoided at all costs, freedom of different religions and lifestyles would be allowed, and there would be a high quality education system, with more respect given to the teachers (as in Asian cultures).
There would be an effort to preserve and regrow natural resources, such as forests.
The science community would be stronger, especially in the area of bioengineering and genetics research, with more money being spent on legitimate studies.

teancum79 said:

Oh and my drug restriction includes nicotine alcohol and caffeine.

Just curiosity, does that include coffee and tea? They're both supposed to be beneficial to health.

[ophelia97]

I forgot to add something that's always bothered me about most societies: celebrities who commit crimes or offenses would NOT get off easy in court. They would be punished just as much as anyone else.
;D

[Tara]

What about things like the power of money? How much of an influence on society would money present?

[Gangrene]

If I could build my ideal society...

Everything would be provided via the government. Everyone would have the same income.... important things like food and some entertainment would be provided for free.

Freedom and equality..... people choose what they want to do in the society(jobs). People would still be promoted in thier jobs based on quality of work. If there are jobs nobody wants machines and computer are designed and created to replace those jobs.

The better quaility of work and efficiency causes everyone's income to increase equally.

[moonchain]

My ideal society:

Healthcare, education, and environment protection laws would be my highest concern. I would have free education for all (with teachers getting the best training they can get and a better living salary than in America) which would include trade schools and universities. I would have a free and open healthcare system (like that in The Netherlands). Rich and poor would get the same attention alike. A good deal of tax money would go towards environmental protection and research for pollution reduction (i.e. more research towards fuel-efficient cars and such vehicles like Hummers wouldn't be allowed in the country).

Religious freedom would be another concern, but it would be equal rights for all religions. No religion would dictate law. Law would be based on objective views of human society as a living organism - harm and death (i.e. rape and murder) are the important issues, not metaphysical concerns. I would have a freedom of speech idea, but with the clause that the speech does not cause mass damage. I do believe in anti-defamation laws.

Guns would be banned completely, save for police and army. Even then, guns wouldn't be free property, but property of the state. It seems to be a system that works in a number of countries, including England (if I'm not wrong). The army would be a standing army, but a higher importance on maintaining international relationships would hopefully overcome the need for war.

Taxes would be based on income, although I would strive to ensure a more middle class based society (as America used to be, though it's becoming less when the rich become richer and the poor become poorer). The poor would have plenty of funding for job training, drug rehab, and basic food and shelter needs. In this way, there would be a half-socialist, half-capitalist society. I don't believe in the extremes of either.

Sexual education would also be a concern, since the state would not mandate sexuality laws. Abortion would be legal. This isn't a question since it is a woman's decision, but my above ideas of society would, IMHO, reduce abortions drastically. Homosexuality would be legal and homosexuals would have all the priviledges of heterosexuals, such as marriage, the right to raise a family, and protection by the law from organizations who see them as unnatural. It would a be a live and let live policy.

Hoo... that's a lot. I'm sure there's more, but it's hard to develop an entire society.

Edit: Bah! Law and government bodies: I think the American system has a good basis, with the idea of checks and balances. It would be *tweaked* to reduce political scandal and criminal backgrounds on politicians would come into play. No one, not even the president, would be outside of the law. If it's illegal, you will be fined heavily or jailed. Politicians wouldn't be payed great sums of money, either. The person in the highest seat of power would be payed the average of middle class society and it would be a majority vote for who is president, but I would hope a free educational system would produce more people from all walks of life running in the system. Not to mention there'd be more than 2 parties. The divisions of the state would be judicial and citizen rule. Judicial would be for carrying out law, whereas the decisions of law would be based on a majority vote of citizens, such as that in Athenian assembly, rather than elected officials. Elected officials would be in charge of carrying out policies voted on by the people for the divisions of education, environment, etc. etc.

[teancum79]

Ophelia I would ban all addictive drugs except for pure medical use. There are some claims about tea being healthy I've yet to see anything indicating that coffee is good for you (unless you are freezing to death and need to get warm in which case any warm liquid should do). When I get some time I’ll try and see what there is on the health pros/cons I had heard that caffeine inhibits the bodies natural cancer defense. I never use that junk so I did not look into it much.

Question for you avoiding war at all costs how far would that go? Maybe more for the sake of argument than anything else, but how much illegal immigration, spying, invasion, etc. would you accept before you said enough is enough?

Oh yes and the equal punishment thing I had read once (pre high school I think) that in one of the Pre Columbian societies nobles where held to a higher standard than the common folk because they should know better. Which for me is a bit tempting, but than it starts to be reverse discrimination and stuff like that that I hate.

[moonchain]

Lemme help you with the caffeine research:
www.mamashealth.com/exercise/caf.asp
www.fitwise.com/Benefits_Caffeine.asp
There are good sides and bad to caffeine, but in the case of coffee, I don't see why it would be villified in your mind to be illegalized. I know I'd never want to live in a country that illegalized coffee. Do you even *want* people to live in your society?

As for your war question: For one, I don't see how illegal immigration affects war. I would have some eased up laws in regards to immigration so that anyone passing into our borders who wants to genuinely become a citizen would be given job training and temporary housing (they'd be required to find their own after a certain period of time), and no more or less than the current citizens would receive. In the case of invasion, we'd still have a standing army for that. It honestly depends on where this "society" is located. If we're in the midst of aggressive countries, we may have a stronger army based on that. I don't have a preferred location, save maybe mid-to-northern Europe. And again, it depends on the enemies we've made and the area we're in as to how we'd deal with spies. Any spies caught would be imprisoned, but I'm hoping to not have anything worth spying on. Honesty is the best policy.

[ophelia97]

Spying and illegal immigration would be monitored, but I still believe there are benefits on remaining a neutral country during war and taking steps to prevent conflict before it begins. It would be more difficult in certain locations to prevent invasion. In that case, we would need a military for defense, but it would go no farther than defense. We wouldn't be the first to provoke others, or take sides for other conflicting nations.

From what we've all seen this year in the U.S, plans for natural disasters need attention. It would also depend on the location of the country and the individual threats.

[Tara]

moonchain said:

Lemme help you with the caffeine research:
www.mamashealth.com/exercise/caf.asp
www.fitwise.com/Benefits_Caffeine.asp
There are good sides and bad to caffeine, but in the case of coffee, I don't see why it would be villified in your mind to be illegalized. I know I'd never want to live in a country that illegalized coffee. Do you even *want* people to live in your society?

I think you're stretching it a bit far. I personally don't drink coffee and in fact, I find it rather disgusting after a while. It sucks 'cause I like the taste, but I can only have so much before my body says, 'no'. lol Anyway, but like I was saying, are you certain that the majority of people drink coffee? And if so, why do you think that is? How do you think that would affect teancum's society?

I would have some eased up laws in regards to immigration so that anyone passing into our borders who wants to genuinely become a citizen would be given job training and temporary housing (they'd be required to find their own after a certain period of time), and no more or less than the current citizens would receive.

This right here kinda reminded me of money (for those who believe everyone should get the same pay). How would a society benefit from lack of competition in the money world? How would a society expect to grow and become strong as a whole? Random questions.

[teancum79]

I'd want lots of people to live in my society. The happiest people I know don't drink coffee. In fact if you don't get addicted to a drug your body runs rather well without it. Addictions are harmful to person and society as a whole. By removing all major sources of addiction people will need to deal with life’s issues instead of hiding form them in a bottle of one form or another. It would be a rude awakening for some folks, but it is a much more healthy way to live both mentally and physically.

[moonchain]

You would probably end up with higher illegal drug trafficking if caffeine were made illegal. Most of the people I know have some sort of caffeine addiction or other (not including you weirdos on this board). I, myself, can't get the day started without my cup of coffee. I honestly don't see how this hurts me. True, if I eventually gave up my coffee addiction, I wouldn't have caffeine withdrawl without it, but I've never been a morning person, even before coffee, and find that its a good positive reinforcement for me to drag my butt out of bed. I also don't know where teancum is getting this "some of the happiest people I know" B.S., but I'm pretty damn happy when I get my caffeine. I also have a great time going out to coffee with my friends. Hey look! It's a social drug!

The same goes for alcohol. Even though it does cause a lot more harm to the body than a number of drugs, when it became illegalized in America, people were making moonshine in their bathtubs! Alcoholism went through the roof! I am one who believes that the "just illegalize it!" way of thinking doesn't do anything for the society in the same way that I think "abstinence is the best sexual education!" isn't productive.

teancum: It's a nice sentiment, but people who consume caffeine in some form come from all walks of life. It may not be addiction in the sense of not dealing with life's problems for many. Or you could lose a lot of people who agree with your (rather conservative) views of society, just based on the fact that you have made things that they enjoy everyday (coffee, chocolate, tobacco, martinis) illegal. Or you could just turn some people off who aren't "addicted", but enjoy the occasional soda or white russian.

Tara: In one of the links I posted, it noted that a 2000 study showed 54% of American adults consume coffee on a regular basis (which doesn't include those who enjoy it on occasion - something many of my friends have, instead of drinking it regularly) and I'm wondering if those numbers have gone up since 2000. This study, btw, doesn't include those who enjoy other caffeinated beverages or caffeine in other forms (i.e. CHOCOLATE). The boy wants to illegalize all caffeine in general. I'm just saying that almost everyone I know consumes caffeine in some form or another.