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Post by Tara on Sept 21, 2005 10:17:42 GMT -5
The reason why I asked, diana, is that in your last post it seemed like you believe that those who date interracially purposely look for someone of another race. This suggested to me that you look at race first than you do with personality. I'm not saying that people are generally colorblind, but it just seemed interesting that you would say something like that. I, personally, don't take race into consideration and I've had my chances with Caucasian, African American and Puerto Rican. And if there are cultural differences, I just take it in as just accepting the person and not necesarily another culture. (I have a feeling I wasn't entirely clear, but it's difficult to explain.. )
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Post by dianaholberg on Sept 21, 2005 11:11:01 GMT -5
I get what you're saying Tara, and I didn't always think the way I do. I think with age comes wisdom, and I've watched many of my friends divorce over what I would describe as "cultural issues". You can bet they went into their marriages thinking much the same as you do now.
It has given me a different perspective to watch those I love suffer so. And even more with their kids.
Love is a choice... not a feeling.
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Post by dianaholberg on Sept 21, 2005 11:33:25 GMT -5
For example... suppose you are a young girl (not you, specifically -- a hypothetical "you") and you "fall in love" with a dedicated Catholic because you liked his personality, and he seemed so accepting of you and open-minded about you not being Catholic. All well and good. But when it comes time to marry, he insists on a Catholic wedding, with all of the preparation that comes with that -- would you be willing to go along?
Suppose you do -- after all, it doesn't matter so much to you what kind of wedding it is. So the two of you marry. But then you discovered that your views on children are different. You knew he wanted children, and in the preparation for marriage you'd heard about Catholic beliefs in this area, but you didn't realize that he really meant all that stuff. He wants "as many children as God will give us" and you didn't realize that his beliefs would affect what goes on in your bedroom... maybe you married thinking it would bring you "sexual freedom" but now you feel more restricted than you did when you were single... so you somewhat resent this, but you still love him so you keep it to yourself.
Time passes and you have a couple of children, which thrills you because you always wanted children. He wants you to stay home, and that's fine with you because you love being "Mommy". But one of your kids won't stop crying, and you're losing sleep and patience. He helps some, but he's got his own concerns with work and your finances... and even when he's home he's outside a lot taking care of the lawn, etc. You start to feel like you're raising your children on your own, and you resent that too. Plus now you feel guilty about the resentment, because you want to just be a loving wife and mother. And your friends don't help -- they tell you that you should force him to do more to help you... they think you take too much on yourself.
Next, when your children reach school age, your husband wants you to homeschool for a couple of years and then send them to Catholic school. How do you feel about that? Suppose you agree to homeschool the older one, thinking the two of you can work something out by the time a couple of years pass. But he is insistent, and you can't be surprised -- you knew he was a dedicated Catholic when you married. But now you're not really feeling very loving toward him at all, between the sexual tension, and what you perceive as a disparity in your responsibilities, and now this thing over how your children will be educated. You feel that if he loved you he would listen to you, or ask your opinion on these things -- and he just doesn't seem open-minded at all. And now you find out that you're pregnant again...
This is typical of what really happens in couples from different cultures. I used Catholic faith as an example, but my friends have been Moslem, Protestant, New Age, even Wiccan and separated or divorced over similar scenarios -- usually having to do mostly with sexuality, children, or how to handle money. Things change when it comes to the brass tacks of raising a family.
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Post by Tara on Sept 21, 2005 12:41:57 GMT -5
For example... suppose you are a young girl (not you, specifically -- a hypothetical "you") and you "fall in love" with a dedicated Catholic because you liked his personality, and he seemed so accepting of you and open-minded about you not being Catholic.... Hehe... I know you said this is hypothetical and all, but..;D my boyfriend is Catholic. Although it seems to me his family isn't that religious, but whatever. I just wanted to say that I found that interesting. As for the actual scenario, people must then talk things out ahead of time. Before marriage....is this why the priest interviews the couple before the wedding? (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Post by PhantomsPandora on Sept 21, 2005 17:00:23 GMT -5
I think about the friend I had that was bi racial al and the flack she got from that from both caucasian and african american kids and that was just wrong. These children are so beautiful and yet have a hard time fitting in. Understand I know that all kids have a hard time fitting in-but the way I saw her treated...
I do think that my family would be accepting of my dating a man of another race. However, if we were to have children I don't know how accepting or kind people would be to those children.
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Post by Tara on Sept 21, 2005 17:28:14 GMT -5
your dad would accept that? I thought you said he was against it?
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Post by dianaholberg on Sept 21, 2005 19:51:11 GMT -5
;D There are lots of what they call "cafeteria Catholics" these days... perhaps they fall in that category? Do they attend Sunday Mass?
That is indeed why... but speculating ahead of time and actually living through it are two different things.
The couples I have seen survive are not the ones who talked it all out ahead of time (all of them attempt to do that to some extent), but the ones who went into it expecting to have to work hard at it... even those who seemed very compatible have had struggles in these three areas. You don't realize how different a person's habits can be from yours until it directly affects your own pocketbook, or bedroom, or child.
The ones who married just for "feelings" are all -- and I mean ALL -- divorced... some a few times over. Feelings fade. That's why I say again (and again and again), love is not a feeling -- it's a choice.
(Of course, drawing on God's help makes it all make more sense... but y'all know where I stand on that...)
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Post by Tara on Sept 21, 2005 21:44:37 GMT -5
Okay, but was I right about the priest thing?
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Post by freebird on Sept 21, 2005 22:58:51 GMT -5
Hello Friends:
I believe spirit is colorblind. I had no choice as to what race I would be born to. So I know no one else did either. There will always be people who judge others because of race. I dont want to play that game. Makes no difference to me who loves who. It is there buisness.
Freebird
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Post by PhantomsPandora on Sept 21, 2005 23:30:00 GMT -5
Nah my dad has problems with people from other religions, he kinda went off of the hook when I dated a baptist boy in my teens.. however I'm a bit older now, and I've got a bit more say.. *shrugs* if he did raise a fuss all I can say about it is that he'd have to get over it.
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Post by Tigress on Sept 21, 2005 23:38:52 GMT -5
one of my friends shagged a black girl on a night out once and he said it was the best thing he's ever done, just the whole white on black thing ... sorry if that's brought things to a new low (which would difficult, considering some of our discussions in the past) but that's how interracial relations are viewed where i come from. I never understood that mentality, and quite frankly, I think it's stupid. Especially since these women are being categorized by their race, as if they differ greatly from 'white girls,' 'red girls' or 'yellow girls.'
But I never said I was open to interracial dating... I have enough to handle with caucasian men -- why would I want to add cultural differences to the mix? Diana, you are confusing race and culture as being one and the same. Whether this is what you meant to communicate, I don't know.
Right now my workplace is very diverse, but most of the out of towners fly home on weekends, so we only socialize over lunch. But we discuss cultural differences rather often -- most of us are single and concerned with these things (how to raise children if we marry, etc.). I understand being concerned with culture differences, but as I said above, race and culture are not necessarily synonymous. Tara, if you'll allow me to refer you as an example. Culturally, her and I have no basic differences, yet we are of different races.
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Post by Rainlily on Sept 22, 2005 1:57:54 GMT -5
I have never actually dated outside my race, although I had crushes on guys who weren't white before. The closest I ever came was a guy who was mi'kmaq when we were in the 8th grade. I liked him and he liked me but we never went out for some odd reason, I was too shy to ask him and I think he was worried what his friends would think or something which was silly because everybody knew we were into each other and a few things did happen between us...anyways i'm getting offtrack lol (sorry fond memories) I dumped a friend over him, she began saying all kinds of nasty things about native americans, I didn't even realize she had anything against them until then... I think for the most part around here people don't really care but there are always the exceptions, and it also depends on what area you are in too. One of my friends who is white dated a guy who was half black in highschool, and nobody ever gave them any trouble until one night they went to a dance in a nearby town, they literally got lynch mobbed as they were leaving the dance that night... sad but true but who knows that was 10 years ago perhaps things have changed....
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Post by littlepea on Sept 22, 2005 7:38:10 GMT -5
I never understood that mentality, and quite frankly, I think it's stupid. Especially since these women are being categorized by their race, as if they differ greatly from 'white girls,' 'red girls' or 'yellow girls.' he was just bragging to his mates. if she were chinese or indian then nobody would be interested (he might even be ridiculed for getting it on with an indian girl), it's just that africans are quite rare where i come from so it's something to talk about. I'm not sure how people in my community view interracial relationships because I honestly don't pay that much attention, to be truthful. It may just be me, but when I look at a person, I don't see a race, a culture, a hair colour, a religion, etc; I see another human being. Someone who, like me, is just trying to do the best they can with what they have, more or less. i don't believe you, or if you are telling the truth, i'm not sure that is the best way to take things. i think it's best to see the cultural differences but think no less of the person because of them. for example, i meet an irish girl, i'm not going to ignore the fact that she's irsh, but i'm not going to think any less of her because of her nationality. i might even make a few irish jokes to break the ice, it's all good (eg. did you hear about the irish paper factory? it blew away ;D) in my experience, the people who have the same opinion as you are generally pretty quiet, easily insulted and generally not much fun, but the people who have the same opinion as me you can always have a laugh with and are not easily insulted. which is better is only a matter of opinion, of course, and i wouldn't tell racist jokes to someone who was sensitive about that sort of stuff. if you ignore the cultural differences then you play them down as if they're unimportant, but i think it's best to be proud of your culture.
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Post by dianaholberg on Sept 22, 2005 7:41:23 GMT -5
No confusion over here... I'm guessing you jumped in at the end of the thread. I was clear in my first post. I understand being concerned with culture differences, but as I said above, race and culture are not necessarily synonymous. I disagree. If you talk and live long enough with a person of a different race, you will discover that there are indeed cultural differences. Have you lived with a person of a different race? (I'm not talking about in a dormitory where you have separate bedrooms and bathrooms and such -- I mean sharing all the same space and responsibilities, such that you see their habits every part of the day.) I'm wondering, Tara, would you agree that you have no cultural differences with Tiger? (Even just in what is presented here -- which is minimal -- I see differences in you two that I would attribute to cultural upbringing... some just a matter of being raised in different countries, but others due in large part to race.)
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Post by Tara on Sept 22, 2005 7:43:51 GMT -5
littlepea said: Well, that too. But all I was saying was that, it isn't something I'd wake up one morning and say, "I'm going to find myself a white man!" .... That was my point (in case anybody didn't understand that) I'm wondering, Tara, would you agree that you have no cultural differences with Tiger? Hmmm... well, we both have a different style of writing. But could that really be attributed to cultural differences? Sometimes I see the way she spells things has a bit of a British (somebody corrct me if I'm wrong) twist to it. For example, I spell it "humor" and she'll spell it "humour". The way people think can be attributed to upbringing such as how they were taught in school and even withiin the same state it can be different amongst schools. But would that be attributed to culture? I think it's quite minimal. But I think if you have people with two different backgrounds come together, someone is going to have to make some sort of cultural sacrifices and I think that would depend on the area they lived in. For example, in some cultures, it is a greeting to spit on someone. however, if you come here in the U.S., you can't do that because people would find that insulting. But in the case of child-rearing, I think the child should be exposed and taught about various customs, whether it's in their blood or not. (But that's my random opinion.)
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