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Post by Tigress on Apr 2, 2005 17:36:24 GMT -5
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Post by littlepea on Apr 2, 2005 21:28:58 GMT -5
interesting that you put this in the society, culture and politics section - as if the pope was more than just a spiritual leader ...
i can't really understand why so many people are so upset about this. i'm sorry if that sounds disgusting, but come on, he was 84, he's only human, it's not a tragedy that he's died, he was just old. a tragedy is when a young man or woman dies who could have gone on to do great things with his/her life. it's not as if it was a great shock, it's been coming for years.
fair enough if you actually knew him or met him and it was a very significant moment in your life then i can understand why you would be upset at his passing, but otherwise: get a grip.
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Post by Tigress on Apr 3, 2005 0:34:43 GMT -5
interesting that you put this in the society, culture and politics section - as if the pope was more than just a spiritual leader... The Pope was/is an important spiritual leader. Perhaps not to you or even I, but to many others. The only person who needs to "get a grip" here is you. I really hate when people say that to those in mourning because I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of that kind of talk. It's not you or anyone else's place to judge who should be sad over the Pope's death, no matter how foolish one may think they are for it. Please continue with more constructive comments. Thanks.
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Post by dianaholberg on Apr 3, 2005 7:24:55 GMT -5
littlepea, have you ever lost someone close to you?
Pope John Paul II was extremely influential in the world -- far moreso than most of the Popes before him. He was the first Pope to travel the world meeting with leaders. Lots of countries and faiths otherwise at odds came together because of his efforts. He asked the world's forgiveness on behalf of the Church for many of the wrongs of the past. No one else was ever humble enough to be able to do that and still maintain the dignity of the papacy.
I think all of that is worth noting even if one isn't Catholic.
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Post by Tara on Apr 3, 2005 12:16:36 GMT -5
Shoot diana, you beat me to it. Pope John Paul II was well loved all over. He tried his best to bring the Christianities and the Jews together most...perhaps because it was his faith involved. Who knows, but to me, he was definately a Christian. One who walks in love and speaks of peace. And then people complain that it's only the devil that talks of unity. I hope the next Pope is going to be as good if not better than him. What a great guy....
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Post by littlepea on Apr 3, 2005 12:27:21 GMT -5
no, i agree, it is worth putting in the society, culture and politics section because he was more than just a spiritual leader, many people say that he was one of the main reasons communism failed in russia because he made it clear that he opposed the communist doctrine of forced atheism (as well as what dianaholberg was saying). i see on re-reading what i posted that it does look like i was trying to implie that he was nothing more than the head of the church - sorry for the confusion.
all i'm saying is i can't understand why people are upset by someone dying that they never met. i'm not saying they shouldn't be upset by it, i just can't understand it - i apologize for saying "get a grip" in that context, that was very insensitive and wrong of me, but it is applicable to the people who say that it's a great tragedy when it clearly isn't. he was an old man and he realized it was his time to go and he died with great dignity. if you actually knew him then i can understand why you would be upset that he's passed away but still, it isn't a tragedy.
when princess diana died, that was a tragedy. she was a young(ish) woman doing much good for the world - she was one of the few royals who used their status to help the world (she travelled to africa and gave charity to help ease suffering as best she could - as well as a lot of other stuff i was too young to remember). it's a tragedy because she could have gone on to do much more good but her life was cut short.
the pope did much good during his life (though also some bad - eg. telling africans that it's better to get aids than use a condom - but that's what the religion teaches, it's not totally his fault) but his life was not cut short, it's been coming for years, that's why i can't understand how people are shocked by his death.
mourn if you want and pay your respects, that's fine by me, and cry for him if that's what you feel, i'm not going to tell you not to, i just don't understand where it's coming from if you never knew him personally.
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Post by PhantomsPandora on Apr 3, 2005 15:40:33 GMT -5
The only way you can change something is a bit at a time, and John Paul II was doing that-at least I think so.
I guess the media coverage is bothersome-some of it is tacky, I felt this way when Diana died, or lately with Terri Schiavo. You can say what you will about the media, but I just think so much can be done with dignity and fair reporting and they care for neither. Like last year when Reagan died, they showed his poor wife crying on his coffin, and were still photographing it.
Some private moments should be private-although I think he was a public figure, I think there oughta be a line too, so that people can show their grief for their spiritual leader without having a microphone shoved in their face.
Such is the case with a fallen solider that died in Iraq. His mother worked in the same nursing home with mine, and the media tried to get in to film the funeral and camped out in their driveway waiting for them to come out.
There has to be a line somewhere where dignity is and privacy.
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Post by dianaholberg on Apr 3, 2005 17:11:39 GMT -5
Very well said, Pandora.
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