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Post by darkangel on Sept 19, 2004 19:02:02 GMT -5
Halloween's roots can be traced back to Celtic culture in Ireland. According to their "Druid" religion, November 1st was New Years' on their calendar. The celebration would begin on October 31st ,and last into the following day. The spirits of all who died in the prior year, would rise up and roam the earth on this night.
This is an evil night when spirits roamed the streets and villages. Lord Samhain, the lord of Darkness, would arrive in search of the spirits to take them to the underworld.
Halloween as it is currently celebrated with costumes, trick or treat, and superstitions, takes from this Druid Holiday.
Now what is confusing here for me is that in my belifes of "The teachings of Gaia" there is no underworld were the sprits of the dead goes.
But rather a life stream, a collction of sprit enegy megein with each other as there travial down to Gaia. And merging with Gaia, given knowlage and experance past down from the life the spirt had when housed in a phical boady, alowing Gaia to grow and develope.
But I do understand about the rest of it and the new year. And that it was called "ALL Hallow eve". The Pagen word for this hoilday was called "Samhain (sow-en), the Celtic New year."
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Post by Tara on Sept 20, 2004 7:50:27 GMT -5
This is an evil night when spirits roamed the streets and villages. Evil? When? Confusing? Perhaps that was the way the Celts thought about the afterlife. Maybe they simply meant afterlife in general. In that case, can't whatever you believe as an afterlife go?
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Post by darkangel on Sept 20, 2004 9:48:44 GMT -5
My belifes are in recarnision the reberf of a sprit in to the humom world. After its traveld to Gaia and shared its experance with it.
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Post by Avalon on Sept 20, 2004 14:37:53 GMT -5
I believe in reincarnation also, but that doesn't mean that there is no ethereal plane. Trapped souls, ghosts, or perhaps those who opted out of rebirth all together.
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Post by darkangel on Sept 20, 2004 18:59:42 GMT -5
mmm thats an intresting thought and somthing worth checking on.
I guess that would explane the spooky goings on that people here so much about.
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Post by Mestemia on Sept 23, 2004 12:19:22 GMT -5
Every year, right around Halloween, we are treated to an outpouring of what can only be described as "scare" literature telling us all about how the holiday is 'satanic' and evil, and should not be celebrated by Christians. These opinions are backed up with some rather unusual and very frightening fantasies masquerading as historical facts.
The Druids were an 'oral' tradition; they didn't write down their teachings. Unfortunately, most of what we have on them from pre-Christian times was written by their mortal enemies: the Roman Empire. To take what the Romans said about the Druids as fact is rather like taking what the Romans said about Christians as fact. (Athenagoras, in 176 CE, writes a whole tome to repudiate the accusations of atheism, cannibalism and lust directed by the Romans at the Christians).
The attempt to associate Hindu-like reincarnation beliefs with Druidic beliefs has no basis in fact. We know that the Celts believed in an afterlife much like life in the world, as they would do things like promise to pay debts "in the next life," but there is no evidence of a belief in reincarnation (coming back to this world, as an animal, insect or human, not another life in Heaven or wherever) as such.
The link with Irish customs is ephemeral (to say the least!) as the Romans never conquered, nor even invaded, Ireland. There is no Graeco-Roman overlay on Irish folklore and myth before the advent of Christianity. Had Halloween come to America from France (Ancient Gaul), whose Celtic culture was thoroughly Romanized, I might have bought into this connection, but it is a fact that Halloween came from Ireland. There was no Roman occupation in Ireland, therefore (and archaeology bears this out) there was no Roman culture in Ireland, so it follows that there can be no credible Romano-Pagan connection with Irish pagan beliefs.
This is significant for Scotland also, as the inhabitants of Scotland at the time of the Roman occupation of Britain were the Picts (a generic term for a confederation of different tribes.) They were not conquered by the Romans either; Hadrian's and Antonine's Walls mark the limit of Roman conquest in Britain. The people that we know as "Scots" (the word "Scot" originally meant "Irishman") are actually an amalgamation of Norse, Pict and Irish that happened well after the Romans left Britain.
As for "Samhain" or "Saman" being the 'lord of the dead,' this is a gross fallacy that seems to have been perpetuated in the late 18th and 19th centuries CE. I have found it in Higgins (first published in 1827, and trying to prove the Druids emigrated to Ireland from India!) where he quotes a Col. Charles Vallency (later a General, who was trying to prove that the Irish were decended from the inhabitants of Armenia!!!) Higgins also refers to an author named "Pictet," who gives this name as that of a god, associating the word with "sabhan," (which word I cannot find in any Gaelic dictionary at my disposal) and trying for a connection with "Bal-sab," to prove a Sun god and Biblical association.
There may very well be a connection between the Celtic "Belenos" and "Baal," but that would be more likely nothing more than two independent lingual changes from early Indo-European root-word(s) that pre-date the apparent migrations of the proto-Celts from the northern Black Sea area. Bottom line is that you can't equate them as being the same. They're not. A discussion of such cultural evolution, and a lingual "family tree", can be found here, in an article on the swasticka.
In more current books in print I have only found "Samhain" named as the 'lord of the dead' in Claudia DeLys' book on American superstitions, and in the "Dictionary of Satanism" , and I find it interesting that these tracts seem to reproduce, almost word-for-word, what Ms. DeLys has to say on the subject relating to 'Samhain, lord of the dead' and about Halloween in general. Looking thru Maclennan, we find that the (Scots) Gaelic "Samhuinn" (pronounced in Scotland as "SAV-im") is translated as "Hallowtide; the Feast of All Souls" and is the same word as Erse (Irish Gaelic) "Samhain" (pronounced "SEW-ain (sort of!)" in Erse), Early Irish "Samfhuin" (also found as "samuin" and "samain") and has the possible Old Celtic root of "samani-." Herity / Eogan also mention "Bealtaine, Lughnasa and Samhain" as holidays of the Iron Age Irish.
The Celtic Gods of the dead were Gwynn ap Nudd (British) and Arawn (Welsh) though the last-mentioned may be only a god of the dead in modern interpetations of paleo-pagan practice. I have not found any Irish "lord of death" as such, and neither have I located any Gaulish (French Celtic) god's name, if any. Lugh would be the nearest thing to a sun-god of the Celts, and even that association is a bit tenuous. Bear in mind also that the Celtic "Lord of the Underworld" was -not- considered to be anything similar to the Judeo/Christian/Islamic/Satanist Satan, but rather something different, and -not- the dualistic concept of good God and evil anti-God.
"Samhain" is the name of the holiday. There is no evidence of any god or demon named "Samhain," "Samain," "Sam Hane," or however you want to vary the spelling.
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Post by Tara on Sept 23, 2004 12:35:21 GMT -5
Where did you get that quote from? Who are you quoting?
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Post by Avalon on Sept 23, 2004 15:51:17 GMT -5
Polytheist, I would not be surprised if there was indeed Roman occupation in Ireland, being that there is a massive amount of archealogical proof that they had ruled the neighboring island of ancient Britain in the pre-dark ages.
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Post by Tigress on Sept 24, 2004 0:42:04 GMT -5
I found some information here.
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Post by Tara on Sept 24, 2004 8:04:37 GMT -5
From the article Tiger pointed out for us.
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moonchain
Guide
It raises a fever of intense apathy.
Posts: 595
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Post by moonchain on Sept 24, 2004 13:48:38 GMT -5
More on Celts. Their language and traditions were not limited to Ireland, much less the British Isles, as PolyTheist has said. And from the same site, some Halloween info. Where PolyTheist seems to have gotten ALL of his text, completely quoted: SOURCE
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Post by Mestemia on Oct 19, 2004 22:52:56 GMT -5
I am sorry for not getting back to this thread earlier. the Other group I am on has a button that takes you to a page that lists all the posts since the last time I visited. (HINT HINT)
Moonchain's link is the one to the site in which my first post came from. I thought I had listed the source but I guess I didn't. Sorry about that.
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Post by Tara on Oct 28, 2004 13:02:01 GMT -5
Samhain is coming up in a few days. Is anyone celebrating and if so, care to share how?
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Post by darkangel on Oct 28, 2004 17:01:21 GMT -5
I want to selebrate it, but not sure how.
With been only pagan in my friends and farmily its hard to talk to anyone about it.
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Post by Tara on Oct 28, 2004 17:16:25 GMT -5
There are always other online communities. Check the Good Sites thread I made. It's stickied.
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