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Goth
Sept 14, 2004 15:38:18 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Sept 14, 2004 15:38:18 GMT -5
What is Goth? This is probably the hardest question any goth could try and answer, one may as well ask 'what is society?' as it has so many facets it defies any definitive explanation. Goth in its simplest form, is a subculture. A group of people who feel comfortable within each others company. There is no specific thing that defines what you need to do or be to fit into the goth scene (except of course the implied black clothing). People in the goth scene all have different musical tastes, follow different religions, have different occupations, hobbies, and fashion sense. Why do people become goths?Most goths become goths because they have been spurned by 'normal' society because the way they want to live their lives does not fit in with how most people are told to live theirs. Goths are free thinkers, people who do not accept the moral rules of society because they're told 'This is just how it is' or 'This is what God says!'. Rather goths tend to listen to what you have to say, and make up their own mind. This kind of free thinking and rejection of dogma earns only rejection in todays society. However because of this rejection from 'normal' society, goths have banded together to associate with other free thinkers. This has a beneficial effect on both the individual and society as a whole. For the individual they have a sense of belonging, and friends they can associate with. For society it removes one more misfit filled with rage from society's streets. This of course is not the case for all goths. Many goths today are goths for a variety of other reasons. They like the music, or the clubs are better, they have goth friends and joined in with them, or they just like staying up late nights and goths are the only ones awake to talk to. The gothic stereotypeMany stereotypes of goths exist these days. It seems everyone has their own way to define 'what is goth'. From the stereotypes based on clothing to music right up to the stereotypes of all goths being satanists or part of some kind of cult. Categorically, all of these are false. The goth scene is just as widely varied as society in general. There are many different professions represented in the scene, from highly skilled professionals like doctors and lawyers, to tradesman, to technically minded people to clerical workers. Many different musical tastes exist (and not all of them goth, there is a HUGE 80's following in the goth scene for some reason). The fashion varies vastly from goth to goth from the traditional flowing victorian style garments to the buckled and studded style regalia (also called industrial style, which is often closely related with goths, and have come to an understanding of co-existance, if uneasily at times). How do I get into goth?This is the simplest part of the page. Go check out our Community section over on the left, and use it to find out whats going on in your local area. Goths tend to be accepting and open minded. Just turn up to a club or event wearing all black and your already in the goth scene. You'll pick it up as you go along (just a hint though, lay off the vampire comments!). The gothic sense of humour is highly developed, and often leans toward the satirical. Quietly laughing at the more idiotic and less tolerant factions of society that seem to think yelling out of cars at us makes them cooler. Goths have learned to laugh at themselves and see society in a much different light. They have had to, and it is a trait most would not give up. Goths have for the most part (not unanimously of course, but mostly) dropped all forms of prejudice. Noone is afraid within the goth scene to come out as being gay, and noone has to hide their religion for fear of scorn from their peers or zealots wanting to convert them from the arms of Satan. In fact because of these facts (and the general lack of prejudice) the goth scene has a large proportion of gays/bisexuals, and followers of non-mainstream religions and views. This of course is the most important aspect of gothdom, and why most goths became goths in the first place, tolerance. (continued...)
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Goth
Sept 14, 2004 15:40:12 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Sept 14, 2004 15:40:12 GMT -5
But they think weird!Ah, but this is the beauty of goths. Most subjects that are taboo in 'normal' society are freely discussed and debated about. Death, religion, magick, mysticism, and many other topics that are only roached carefully outside of the gothic community. Most goths have realised that fear is only a reaction instilled in us by dogmatic propaganda, and once you realise there is nothing to fear from the topic, whats to stop you discussing it? Goths often revel in the fear given to them by society as a whole. Often the behavior exhibited by society to them based on society's perception of them from stereotypes, rumour, etc are a constant source of entertainment. Of course, most of the rumours are totally unfounded, goths are people like everyone else, however when you already have a reputation, going for the shock factor is often far too tempting to see how much society at large is willing to believe (or deduce) with only a little encouragement. This does not totally fall away once you get inside the scene unfortunately, and goths are all too often tempted to try for the shock factor within the scene (which turns out more tacky than shocking). Goths when you get down to it can be a rather pretentious bunch, trying for those extra 'goth points' on the gothier than thou scale, but it adds to the enjoyment. History of GothModern goth (ignoring where the name itself originally comes from) started in the early 80's as part of the punk subculture (which is itself was a rejection of most societal values, and anything considered part of the 'norm'). The phrase was coined by the band manager of Joy Division, Anthony H. Wilson, who described the band as 'Gothic compared with the pop mainstream'. The term stuck, and as punk eventually died, Goth survived and became its own subculture. The punk clothing and hairstyles mellowed, and the core 'rejection of society' attitude alone lived on in the gothic subculture. Over time this itself has been modified to be more of a 'no more blind acceptance of society's values' as opposed to rejection because it was there to be rejected (and because you could get away with it!). Movies such as The Crow, and bands such as the Bauhaus helped establish the gothic image as dark, depressing, and even evil. As more and more 'dark' movies came out, numbers in the gothic subculture expanded, and there is now a gothic community in almost every major city around the world, and quite a number of towns have their own representative contingent. Nowdays there are more goth bands around than ever, and it has turned from an 80's phenomenon into a 90's way of life for many people. Unlike the punk subculture that it spawned from, there even exists a class of mature goths, still following the scene around even past their 20's and into their 30's and beyond. -- PreZ ( From Goth.net) Please note that the above is the opinion of the author, and that there is no definitive answer to the question "What is Goth?", so opinions and answers will vary.
© 2000,2001 Preston A. Elder
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Goth
Nov 1, 2004 18:18:22 GMT -5
Post by Avalon on Nov 1, 2004 18:18:22 GMT -5
Well honestly, I struggle with this question quite abit.
I am called a "Goth" by friends, teachers, and classmates, but I feel so strange calling myself one. If wearing the makeup and clothes makes one "gothic" then I'd suppose that'd be me; And yet, I fall drastically short in one (very important) aspect of goth: the music.
My musical choices are certainly not goth. The slow, often eery music of underground eighties pop-punk rarely appeals to me (except for the occasional Cure). I fashion my musical stlyings more around a widely varying number of aventgaurd(sp?) alternative derivatives. My favorites are as substantially different (though somehow similar) as bands such as SoaD, and the RHCP.
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Goth
Nov 2, 2004 8:58:41 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Nov 2, 2004 8:58:41 GMT -5
Music? I know of a friend who felt that you would know a Goth by their taste in art. (I know music is a form of art, but put that aside for now) She said she would test people by showing them something that many would consider gruesome (to bad I don't have a pic...just to give an idea). If the person would say something like, "eeww that's gross! That's disturbing!" then she would say they weren't Goth. But if the person sees a sot of philosophy behind it, then she would consider them Goth. I don't think music has anything to do with being Goth. I think Goth is a philosophy. And I would say that a Goth would probably like the works of people such as Edgar Allen Poe. I guess it would be someone into the dark arts of any kind. One who sees beauty in the darker side of life like this poem.
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Goth
Nov 2, 2004 10:54:01 GMT -5
Post by Avalon on Nov 2, 2004 10:54:01 GMT -5
Quite the debatable theory. Modern Goth's routes are almost completely musical. And many of the Goth.net members would agree, that true Goths listen to a strict diet of Bauhaus and Banshees.
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Goth
Nov 2, 2004 12:11:44 GMT -5
Post by PhantomsPandora on Nov 2, 2004 12:11:44 GMT -5
I guess if you had to classify me, yes that's where I'd go.
Morbid though really doesn't begin to describe me so I won't go there. I'm absolutely fascinated with death. I guess though that stems fromt he feeling of "where does the soul go?" . Obviously, it leaves the body. I don't know, I'm really odd.
I do, respect death.
Yes, I have the movie "the crow". But I can put in classical, opera, rock, country, celtic, world music, new age, christian , pop music and be totally into what's on the radio.
I love poetry, I love art, be it fanciful or serious in appearance, I just appreciate everything more than it seems my less serious peers. While everyone was concerned about the next big football game, I was going "DID YOU READ THIS SONNET BY SHAKESPEARE? IT's AMAZING!"
I think in someways those who would like to say they are goth are in tune with their dramatic nature, more. They're able to let go and not worry about social hierachy because they know they can be themselves and fit in just fine. Without having to strive to be something they are not.
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Goth
Nov 2, 2004 21:34:48 GMT -5
Post by Mestemia on Nov 2, 2004 21:34:48 GMT -5
I guess I play way to much Age of Empires because I know about the Goths but none of this thread has anything to do with them.
Can I safely assume that you are refering to some sort of cliche(sp?)?
Like in High school you have the Preps, Jocks, Nerds, Hoods etc.?
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Goth
Nov 2, 2004 21:50:44 GMT -5
Post by Mestemia on Nov 2, 2004 21:50:44 GMT -5
Age of Empires Goth Empire:
This is what I think when you use the term Goth. As you can see, it is not at all like you are refering to.
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Goth
Nov 3, 2004 8:35:52 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Nov 3, 2004 8:35:52 GMT -5
Goth.net doesn't say anything about that. Is half of that information even real or is it something the game made up? Most of the time, games make up this stuff.
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Goth
Nov 3, 2004 18:58:05 GMT -5
Post by Avalon on Nov 3, 2004 18:58:05 GMT -5
No Tara, Polythesist is right. However, I think he missed the parenthesized part of the first sentence under the "History of Goth" subsection.
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Goth
Nov 3, 2004 20:46:17 GMT -5
Post by Mestemia on Nov 3, 2004 20:46:17 GMT -5
Oops. I sure did.
No it is not made up. The game is a real time strategy that 'pits' the differing empires against one another and most of the information about them is "historically accurate".
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Goth
Nov 4, 2004 15:06:32 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Nov 4, 2004 15:06:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I heard a little about that game. I want to play it so freakin' bad. They have Egypt right? ;D
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Goth
Mar 14, 2005 17:10:20 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Mar 14, 2005 17:10:20 GMT -5
The other day a friend of mine introduced me to a magazine she recently picked up called, "Dark Realms". I thought it was awesome. It's basically a Gothic/Fantasy magazine. They talk about music, they review gothic type movies and they even have stories and all. It's really cool. You can find out more here at Amazon.com I've never really been one to be interested in Gothic culture, but I was quite impressed with the magazine. I haven't found a website for it. The issue I was looking at introduced a wonderful digital artist by the name of Kate Dawizick. (If you'd like her website, search as some of it's contents go against the TOS for proboards ) It's fantasy/gothic art, and it's really cool. I just wanted to say that the magazine touches on everything in art, music and culture and I was impressed.
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Goth
Mar 16, 2005 18:54:41 GMT -5
Post by littlepea on Mar 16, 2005 18:54:41 GMT -5
do you have "moshers" in america? they're the ones who wear skater type clothing with black hoodies with band logos on it. they're into bands like slipknot and often dye their hair funny colours. they're not goths, who wear white make-up, dye their hair black and wear lots of black leather (and massive boots which cost about £200) and they're not skaters, who just skateboard and listen to punk. it was quite trendy to be alternative when i was in school and i followed the alternative trend (ie. mosher) for a while before i started thinking for myself. i used to skate too, but wore mosher clothing - this often worked against me (black hoody + skateboarding in summer = overheating; also, i used to wear a chain on my wallet which would whack against my leg when i skated, not very sensible). i was just a kid, though, and it was good to experiment with different tastes ... what am i talking about, i still am a kid, just a bit older
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Goth
Mar 16, 2005 20:10:18 GMT -5
Post by Tigress on Mar 16, 2005 20:10:18 GMT -5
do you have "moshers" in america? they're the ones who wear skater type clothing with black hoodies with band logos on it. they're into bands like slipknot and often dye their hair funny colours. Yep.
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