doug
Student
Posts: 8
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Post by doug on Oct 12, 2007 5:12:19 GMT -5
" Sadly history has shown us that unless there is some forced help for the poor most of the rich will ignore them. "
I agree with this and I think it continues to show why we need some element of tax and welfare system.
So much good is done with tax money and public services I'm surprised there are Chrisitians who think it a bad idea to use money to help those in need.
" most of American "poor" are still rich by the world's standards "
I would agree with Amalcas' points about this. It is America's wealth that make the third world living standards of some its poor so shocking and why re-distribution of some of that wealth would be a positive action.
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Post by Mestemia on Oct 16, 2007 7:45:27 GMT -5
I have said for years that the USA needs to go to a flat income tax system. Everyone pays 8%. Period. No ifs. No ands. No buts. No exceptions. No conditional modifiers. No more. No less.
Then the Government must learn to operate within its financial constraints. Scary thought isn't it? The US Government being forced to remain within a budget. Much like it tells it citizens to do...
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doug
Student
Posts: 8
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Post by doug on Oct 17, 2007 4:06:43 GMT -5
Are you talking about Income Tax Mestemia? What is the current tax rate in America? I think most people in the UK pay around 20% and then it goes up to 40% at a cetain level.
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Post by teancum79 on Oct 17, 2007 10:14:02 GMT -5
Federal income tax is very "progressive". Between the employee and employer contributions for social security programs though we are hit nearly 20% before the Federal income tax or any State income or sales tax comes in.
Id be happy to give the government 10% and even let them "progressive" the tax a bit to hit people at double the rate whose personal incomes brake a million a year. (slightly off the main concept but we know how evil rich people are and that they must be punished).
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jedivelariuskenobi
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All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Oct 17, 2007 16:45:59 GMT -5
i think we wouldn't have to worry about taxes so much if the government would stop spending them on bridges to nowhere and wars to the same destination.
just my 2 cents ...
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doug
Student
Posts: 8
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Post by doug on Oct 17, 2007 17:07:41 GMT -5
Hi Teancum, I'm not sure those who support a welfare system to help the poor think that the rich are evil as a consequence. No one is saying "punish the rich". It's more a case of "who has the most resources?" If you earn $1m then you're not worrying about where your next meal is coming from are you? So you can spare some pennies (surely!) for the man who can't afford to feed his children without state help. Isn't that what a civilised, wealthy super-power should do? I'd agree with you Jedi - if we poured money into health etc instead of the obscene billions currently oozing their way into various war chests the world would be a happier place-but we'd probably just be called naive wouldn't we?
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Post by teancum79 on Oct 17, 2007 17:15:01 GMT -5
I'm up for some careful military cut backs. An army like the fire department looks like a big waste of money until you need them. Frankly I could go for our nation not having troops all over the globe. The odd air base, navel refueling station and guards for our embassy's I can see, but it seems someone wants the US to have a base in every nation the world over. Its costly and frankly I don't like the direction that takes the world. If we could get everyone in the world to behave we could chuck all the armies cops etc and we'd have plenty of cash for other things, but it only takes one rotten apple to spoil that system.
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jedivelariuskenobi
Guide
All life is one energy, therefore, there is no i only we, and compassion then must follow
Posts: 252
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Post by jedivelariuskenobi on Oct 17, 2007 17:55:32 GMT -5
I'm up for some careful military cut backs. An army like the fire department looks like a big waste of money until you need them. Frankly I could go for our nation not having troops all over the globe. The odd air base, navel refueling station and guards for our embassy's I can see, but it seems someone wants the US to have a base in every nation the world over. Its costly and frankly I don't like the direction that takes the world. If we could get everyone in the world to behave we could chuck all the armies cops etc and we'd have plenty of cash for other things, but it only takes one rotten apple to spoil that system. There is having an army, and then there is deploying that army policing the world ... which is not our job. Besides what we spend now is based more on the military / industrial complex than on what is really necessary.
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Post by Mestemia on Oct 17, 2007 19:40:48 GMT -5
Hi Teancum, I'm not sure those who support a welfare system to help the poor think that the rich are evil as a consequence. No one is saying "punish the rich". It's more a case of "who has the most resources?" If you earn $1m then you're not worrying about where your next meal is coming from are you? So you can spare some pennies (surely!) for the man who can't afford to feed his children without state help. Isn't that what a civilised, wealthy super-power should do? I'd agree with you Jedi - if we poured money into health etc instead of the obscene billions currently oozing their way into various war chests the world would be a happier place-but we'd probably just be called naive wouldn't we? Kinda sounds like you are all for punishing those who make more money simply because they make more money. I disagree with that concept. (and no I do not think you are supporting it, I merely said it sounds like you are) You likely don't want to get me started on the welfare system, though in order to "fix" the taxation puzzle, welfare and Social Security are two things that will have to be looked at and revamped. Especially since neither one is working very well as it stands. Welfare has to many people cheating the system to stay on it. Not only that but the current system is set up in an all or nothing configuration. You either get benefits or you do not. There is no incentive for someone to get off of the system. In fact, the whole system begs for people to stay on it. Social security is a big joke. I know several people who receive SSI or Disability because they are alcoholics whilst people who have legitimate medical reasons to get it are told to go get work at Wal-mart. Not to mention the fact that Congress cannot keep its greedy fingers out of the Social Security funds. As far as the tax system... It is an even bigger joke than the Social Security fiasco. Those who make the most get to keep the most. They needs get rid of all the redundant tax breaks for the rich. Get rid of all the tax breaks for everyone. Everyone pays a flat percent of their income to the federal government. And the Federal Government then has to keep spending within the amount that they ACTUALLY recieve from taxes.
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