|
Post by Tigress on Sept 13, 2005 3:55:09 GMT -5
American Overseeing Vatican Evaluation of U.S. Seminaries Says Gays Should Not be Ordained
Associated Press
New York, Sept. 12 - The American prelate overseeing a sweeping Vatican evaluation of every seminary in the United States told a weekly newspaper that men with "strong homosexual inclinations" should not be enrolled, even if they have remained celibate for years.
Archbishop Edwin O'Brien made the comments to the National Catholic Register newspaper as Roman Catholics await word of a much-anticipated Vatican document on whether homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood. O'Brien and several other U.S. bishops have said they expect that document to be released soon.
"I think anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted into a seminary," O'Brien told the independent newspaper. He said that even gays who have been celibate for a decade or more should not be admitted, the Register reported in its Sept. 4-10 edition. » Continue...
|
|
|
Post by PhantomsPandora on Sept 13, 2005 22:11:09 GMT -5
Into the catholic church or? I don't understand? They really don't have any control over any other denomination. Shouldn't come too much as a surprise I guess.
I don't know whether to say "their loss " or "what do you expect" or..what..
|
|
|
Post by dianaholberg on Sept 14, 2005 7:11:29 GMT -5
Into the "priesthood"... which only exists in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches.
|
|
|
Post by cenk on Sept 14, 2005 9:51:11 GMT -5
Gays should NOT be ordained because a.) Being Gay is forbidden and b.) Priests are not allowed to have relationsions. I thought they were suppost to be married to their relgion. The idea of a Gay Priest is just an example of the lowering of standards and morals present in the world today and this from the Church of all places.
|
|
|
Post by Tara on Sept 14, 2005 14:37:01 GMT -5
Why should orientation matter if the main focus should be about being married to the church?
|
|
|
Post by littlepea on Sept 14, 2005 16:56:24 GMT -5
the point is that even though they have homosexual feelings they are still celibate and in some cases have been for 10 years or more (like the article points out). the only thing that i can take from the bible about homosexuality is that gay sex is wrong, i don't see where it says that homosexuality (which is beyond your control) is wrong.
the gays who want to be priests are still celibate, the only difference is that they might have impure thoughts about men in the same way that other priests might have impure thoughts about women.
i don't see what difference it should make as long as they remain celibate. the only quibble i would have is if they refused to repent (or pay pennance, since they are catholic) for their gay sex in the past, seeing as firstly the bible is pretty clear and secondly the catholic church is even more clear on that issue (ie. gay sex is a sin).
or does the catholic church also teach that homosexual feelings are sinful as well?
|
|
|
Post by dianaholberg on Sept 14, 2005 19:51:22 GMT -5
I posted a response in the Catholicism forum.Short answer: fleeting desires (of any sexual nature) are not sinful, but if they are allowed to develop into lustful thoughts, that is sinful. This whole topic is a distraction from the real matter. Pedophilia is quite different from homosexuality.
|
|
|
Post by ophelia97 on Sept 15, 2005 13:44:47 GMT -5
I can't see a problem with lustful thoughts, unless they develop into perverse actions. Certain people with psychological problems might not be able to restrain themslves from acting upon their desires, but what about the rest of us who keep them under control?
|
|
|
Post by littlepea on Sept 15, 2005 16:29:16 GMT -5
Exodus 20:17 "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." covet: cov·et ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kvt) v. cov·et·ed, cov·et·ing, cov·ets v. tr. To feel blameworthy desire for (that which is another's). To wish for longingly. sounds like lustful thoughts are bad whether you see it or not ... mind you, it could be interpreted that it's only going on about your neighbour's property, nothing about coveting your neighbour's body (though lust is one of the seven deadly sins). i dunno what the catholic church would have to say on this matter, but i'm sure diana can fill us in.
|
|
|
Post by cenk on Sept 15, 2005 18:46:47 GMT -5
I dont know anymore, whats the point of being a gay priest if you cant have gay sex in the first place. You cant have sex if your a priest anyway so whats the relevance of a gay priest?
But I suppose if the priest is gay and not having sexual relations then its alright.
|
|
|
Post by dianaholberg on Sept 15, 2005 19:46:23 GMT -5
mind you, it could be interpreted that it's only going on about your neighbour's property, nothing about coveting your neighbour's body (though lust is one of the seven deadly sins). i dunno what the catholic church would have to say on this matter, but i'm sure diana can fill us in. lol... you're mixing up the Commandments. The one you quote is the 10th... the one about not coveting your neighbor's wife is the 9th. The one about committing adultery is the 6th. But you're right, littlepea... lust breaks several of the Commandments.
|
|
|
Post by littlepea on Sept 15, 2005 21:41:29 GMT -5
what i quoted is the protestant 10th commandment. protestants take the catholic 9th and 10th commandments together but they have an extra commandment (which is inserted as the 2nd the commandment - all the commandments after the 2nd are pushed one along the order, hence "thou shalt not commit adultery" is the 7th commandment, not the 6th for protestants) which states "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
since this thread concerns catholicism it would have been better to quote the catholic versions of the commandments, but i didn't actually know there was any difference until you pointed that out and i went to look it up again.
why do you think there are differences between the catholic and protestant versions of the 10 commandments?
/me whisks away to the catholicism board ...
|
|
|
Post by Tara on Sept 16, 2005 7:23:50 GMT -5
I dont know anymore, whats the point of being a gay priest if you cant have gay sex in the first place. You cant have sex if your a priest anyway so whats the relevance of a gay priest? But I suppose if the priest is gay and not having sexual relations then its alright. Huh? It seems your equating homosexuality with sex.
|
|
|
Post by dianaholberg on Sept 16, 2005 7:26:06 GMT -5
I think rather he's equating being a priest with abstinence.
|
|
|
Post by Tigress on Sept 22, 2005 4:18:37 GMT -5
American Overseeing Vatican Evaluation of U.S. Seminaries Says Gays Should Not be Ordained
Associated Press
New York, Sept. 12 - The American prelate overseeing a sweeping Vatican evaluation of every seminary in the United States told a weekly newspaper that men with "strong homosexual inclinations" should not be enrolled, even if they have remained celibate for years.
Archbishop Edwin O'Brien made the comments to the National Catholic Register newspaper as Roman Catholics await word of a much-anticipated Vatican document on whether homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood. O'Brien and several other U.S. bishops have said they expect that document to be released soon.
"I think anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted into a seminary," O'Brien told the independent newspaper. He said that even gays who have been celibate for a decade or more should not be admitted, the Register reported in its Sept. 4-10 edition. » Continue... My understanding is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that it is the sexual acts of homosexuals that are the sin. If this is true, I cannot begin to comprehend the 'logic' behind this 'ban' because the Church adheres to the Latin Rite (does it not?), which requires obligatory clerical celibacy of priests, regardless of their sexual orientation.
Into the "priesthood"... which only exists in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches. The Anglican Communion also have a priesthood.
Gays should NOT be ordained because a.) Being Gay is forbidden No, being homosexual is not forbidden, rather it is the sexual acts of homosexuals that are the sin, as I stated earlier on. (This is my current understanding).
See first comment. You are confusing sexual acts with sexual orientation.
From the article: "There's a long history in the Catholic Church for centuries of gay priests serving the church well," Weill said. "For the Catholic Church now to suddenly ban gay priests, it would be a very foolish decision and harmful for the church overall."
This whole topic is a distraction from the real matter. Pedophilia is quite different from homosexuality. I agree. I think a number of religious people have, in ignorance, linked (or have even equated) homsexuality and pedophilia. In truth, there is no such link. Click.
From the article: The debate over gays in the priesthood reached a crisis point last year when a study that the U.S. bishops commissioned from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found that most of the alleged abuse victims since 1950 were adolescent boys.
Debbie Weill, executive director of DignityUSA, which represents gay and lesbian Catholics, accused bishops of "scapegoating" gays to divert attention from the failure of church leaders to protect children.
I dont know anymore, whats the point of being a gay priest if you cant have gay sex in the first place. You cant have sex if your a priest anyway so whats the relevance of a gay priest? What's the point of being a straight priest if you can't have straight sex in the first place? -- I'll let you off the hook for now, since you seem to have [started to] grasp(ed) the concept with the last part of your post.
|
|