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Fascism
Sept 2, 2005 11:09:31 GMT -5
Post by ophelia97 on Sept 2, 2005 11:09:31 GMT -5
Theres one thing none of you have mentioned George Bush uses the peoples fear to gain votes he plays with their fear of terrorism, etc... to gain politically The "mass panic" mentality works well; people are easily freaked out about things they don't understand completely.
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Fascism
Sept 2, 2005 14:28:45 GMT -5
Post by Tara on Sept 2, 2005 14:28:45 GMT -5
Yeah, like last night I saw this beatle looking thing and I was scared 'cause I never saw it before. ...lol
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Fascism
Sept 2, 2005 15:03:19 GMT -5
Post by cenk on Sept 2, 2005 15:03:19 GMT -5
'We don't hate all things left... conservatives believe in moderation in all things.'
I was under the impression that Moderation meant 'Being within reasonable limits, or, not being excessive or extreme.
Some of the excessive actions taken by the USA. (I'll only list afew) 1.) Dropping 2 Nuclear Bombs on Japan. 2.) Invading Korea because America is totally against the political ideology of Communism. 3.) Invading Vietnam becase America is totally against the political ideology of Communism. 4.) Overthrowing the only Marxist government ever elected in Chile. (YES, the Chileans voted for them to form their government but America had other ideas.
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Fascism
Sept 2, 2005 16:25:11 GMT -5
Post by Amalcas on Sept 2, 2005 16:25:11 GMT -5
A few notes, Cenk: 1. The German populous, to my knowledge, never actually voted for Hitler (he was popular/powerful enough that he just kind of.....sidled in). 2. Do you know why the bombs were dropped? Because the Japanese Emperor was instructing the japanese, including women and children, to arm themselves with makeshift weapons (such as bamboo spears) and fight the Americans to the death when the main islands were invaded. They feared, not unreasonably, that most of the japanese would actually do so. The deaths caused by the atomic bombs pale in comparison to the bloodbath that would have resulted in invading Japan, which, due to the emperor's mentality, was our only other viable option. 3. I am not an expert on Korea or Vietnam, but I know that Vietnam was during the middle of a revolution, and we supported the capitalists. 4. Well, I don't really have a fourth point. Just that I don't really know about the Marxist government in Chile.
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Fascism
Sept 3, 2005 11:43:42 GMT -5
Post by cenk on Sept 3, 2005 11:43:42 GMT -5
Amalcas.
1.) Hitlers party the NSDAP in March 5, 1933 elections recieved 17.28 Million votes or a 43.9% share of the vote. I'll put that in comparison Hitler got a higher percentage of the than George Bush (37.40% in 1992) when he lost to Bill Clinton. Admittely Hitler wasn't elected President because he needed a 50% majority but he was essential the second in command, this only lasted a year until Hindenberg the president died Hitler became the Fuhrer shortly after.
2.) OK I accept your point about the Atomic bombs and the number of deaths it might have saved. However there might have been alternatives to Atomic bombs also the effects of the bombings are still being felt in Nagasaki and Hiroshima you still get cases of babies being born deformed today.
3.) Well in Korea and Vietnam USA intervention costly the lives of a estimated 3 to 5 million Koreans and Vietnamese. The only reason USA got involved was to support idealism of Capitalism and that cost the lives of so many innocent people. It was not the USA's place to get involved but they did anyway just like Bush junior did in Iraq.
4.) I'll put it in perspective. Its like theres two candidates in the next US elections, lets call them A and B. The American population vote for B but some external nation decides they don't like B so they replace him with a someone they do like so essentially get change the results of the democratic processes occurring in another nation.
I'm not Anti-American I just want to make you aware that some of the actions that your nation has undertaken in the past have not always been the best decisions for world peace and stability.
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Fascism
Sept 5, 2005 9:42:47 GMT -5
Post by Amalcas on Sept 5, 2005 9:42:47 GMT -5
I understand. I was simply trying to balance the perspective, though I know we've made....incredibly stupid mistakes. Vietnam and Korea, paticularly Vietnam, are easy to argue as mistakes. Chile, as I said, I have no true knowledge of, so I will concede the point. I will make one final note and question about the atomic bombs: They did not know about the lasting effects of radiation, otherwise I believe they would probably not have dropped them. And, what reasonable alternative could have been found to make a fanatic emperor give up his "pet war?" Keep in mind that his advisors had to force him to do so as it was.
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Fascism
Sept 5, 2005 9:52:26 GMT -5
Post by cenk on Sept 5, 2005 9:52:26 GMT -5
haha its all cool!
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Fascism
Sept 6, 2005 13:45:32 GMT -5
Post by ophelia97 on Sept 6, 2005 13:45:32 GMT -5
I will make one final note and question about the atomic bombs: They did not know about the lasting effects of radiation, otherwise I believe they would probably not have dropped them. Agreed; what scares me now is the possibility that we didn't learn from the past mistake of fooling around with things technology doesn't yet understand. Many scientists are still ignorant and careless in the laboratory. I hope this isn't getting too off topic.
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Fascism
Sept 6, 2005 14:36:31 GMT -5
Post by PhantomsPandora on Sept 6, 2005 14:36:31 GMT -5
The thing about history is that it repeats itself. Because the new thinks "this is something different, there's nothing to be learned from the past"
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Fascism
Sept 6, 2005 18:22:20 GMT -5
Post by dianaholberg on Sept 6, 2005 18:22:20 GMT -5
Amen, Pandora.
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